Nick

Everything looks great and thanks for keeping the faith and going the extra length to keep the forum going. There isn't anything like it elsewhere.

On 11/10/2023 at 11:51 AM, nycnewsjunkie said:

It’s been discussed extensively here in the past, but I don’t think the branding shift was designed to “move the needle” as much as it was designed to promote the local streaming services. I really wish there were more reliable sources for ratings than that creep Rich Lieberman, but even if he’s right…at least the station hasn’t tanked, I guess.

 

Pittsburgh is always competitive, and the ratings race for the 25-54 demo is extremely close. I’m sure there are other factors as to why KDKA is down at 6pm, though I wouldn’t be familiar with what those are.

I wouldn't take Rich Lieberman's word for anything.  To him, every Bay Area radio and television newsroom is a cesspool of incompetence and failure,  backbiting and jealousy,  and most news anchors are having illicit affairs.  It'd be pretty funny if it weren't so monotonous.

I think CBS News and Stations got the new look done in a hurry compared to ABC O&Os

One thing that is not on the horizon is any standardization of ABC O&O graphics.

CBS, NBC and FOX affiliates all have identical design.  (I think local news is the poorer for that, especially CBS's rendering its stations to  the "CBS News (insert market name here) " generic quality.  WABC, KABC, and WLS, to name the three biggest ABC markets, are their own tooling and bear little resemblance to one another in font and design.

KABC and KGO are mostly similar, except for differences in L3 color and a few other details.

KABC by the way is working on the same graphics and set that made a debut in October 2015.  That is some kind of record maybe.

On 3/30/2023 at 8:04 AM, Media_1904 said:

I was at KFMB at the time when Tuck came from KCBS. If I remember right the new GM came from WABC and took over KCBS and revamped the whole Anchor line-up letting go Tuck and Linda Alvarez. Tuck came to KFMB and teamed up w/ Denise Yamada at 5pm and Sandra Maas at 630pm. 

John Severino,  who'd made KABC's "Eyewitness News" a powerhouse in great part by hiring Jerry Dunphy after KNXT had cut him loose , too old,   came back to take over (I believe) the CBS stations group and run KCBS in 1999. He didn't care for Tuck, was quoted in the L.A. Times as saying "he could go back to San Diego"  and installed Jonathan Elias with Ann Martin.  I liked Elias a lot.     Alvarez returned to 2 a year later.   Severino was responsible for the dual embarrassments of the 4 p.m. "Women 2 Women" show and also the hiring of Mike Boguslawski,  the consumer reporter who'd wave his fists and shout in the camera "I'm in YER COR-NER."

On 1/30/2023 at 3:14 PM, Metrodonmartin said:

 

—————-Good memory!

 

Tuck was already there when Lippman dumped Lamps. They reteamed Walker and Tuck.  (As they were at KGTV in San Diego) and they brought back Chris Conangla from morning and noon exile to anchor with Tritia Toyota at 5.  
 

Dunphy’s deal was up with KCAL and they’d made no move to resign him (Young had recently bought KCAL from Disney) so Dunphy called Larry Perret and Applegate and negotiated his own deal.  He left KCAL and was initially reteamed with Ann Martin at 5 but within a few months was moved to the 4 and anchored at first with Toyota and the with Linda Alvarez. They dropped Dunphy just a little more than a year later. He returned to KCAL about 18-19 months later. 
 

KCBS did move briefly into 2nd place at 11 with Martin and Tuck during the OJ period but quickly fell back into last place by the next book. 
 

They were number 1 at 11 for a year or so in early/mid 2000’s with Magers and Diaz, when CBS prime was super hot.

Thanks!  And I think Paul Magers is the only male anchor since Dunphy in the early 1970s to anchor a  station newscast that was top-rated, however briefly it was number one, and  however it was tied to CBS' prime-time popularity. 

And I remember Tuck's doing those "Perspective" commentaries before becoming the main anchor,  and he could give public figures a good dressing down, from Daryl Gates to George H.W. Bush.    Almost an anachronism for an anchor then, and out of the question now,

On 1/16/2023 at 8:59 PM, Myron Falwell said:

KCAL has a strong news brand and KCBS has been a market laggard since the early 1990s (and again, they were an embarrassment under Applegate before that). It’s a net positive to have the stronger brand used over both stations. KCBS has nothing to lose by ceding their brand over this.

 

Yet again, this is not complicated.

 

I’m an armchair quarterback and I’ll never work in the industry. If I operated a television station it would fail in a matter of days, and I know it.

I'm an armchair, backseat-driving commenter as well.  The loud, splashy, and tabloid-like "Action News"  was the creation of GM Steven Gigliotti and ND John Lippman, who came aboard in late 1991.  Among other changes, they dumped Jim Lampley for the more in-your-face Michael Tuck. KCBS won the February 1992 11 p.m. sweep primarily because of the Olympics, but it was all downhill after that, and the management team was canned.

Bill Applegate actually restored a little order in 1994-95.  While he retained the "Action News" branding he toned the newscasts down quite a bit.   He hired Linda Alvarez for mornings;   his throwing the CBS checkbook at Ann Martin led Bree Walker out the door, and then went for nostalgia.  He outbid Disney and KCAL to get Jerry Dunphy,  "Big News" stalwart Bob Navarro,  Larry Carroll,  and Dr. George Fischbeck!.   Not that any of this helped the ratings -- it didn't.  In fact things were so dismal that the early-morning news was axed until long after Applegate was shown the door.

On 1/26/2023 at 6:56 AM, Myron Falwell said:

Even if it is just that, I highly doubt that you’ll see a branding disparity between OTA and streaming last for long.

 

For one, February sweeps is forthcoming. No better time for the CBS Los Angeles name to be gradually phased in with the KCAL name so OTA viewers can connect the two brands.

I don't know if you'd call this a branding disparity, but there was a difference between OTA and streaming from the time the "CBSN" platform debuted in Los Angeles in mid- 2019.  All newscasts,  for example this KCAL noon show,  put this box over the channel-number bug.

On 1/26/2023 at 6:42 AM, FiveNews said:

if we can keep it real, channel 2 hasn't been relevant in Los Angeles since April 1984. That was when KNXT became KCBS. The station that "revolutionized" local news was the former KNXT. I don't think KCBS has ever revolutionized anything in LA.

I might not have expressed it right.   I noted that KNXT introduced the nation's first hour-long newscast in 1960,  that didn't necessarily mean that had any bearing on the recent re-brandings.   That call-letter change was certainly a big thing, though the station brandings at the time changed not at all.  "Channel 2 News" even kept the 1978 opens with the old logo until early in 1985.  I noted that the visage of Jerry Dunphy was shown in KCAL promos;   one might have thought his Los Angeles anchoring career began at Channel 9 in 1989.  But then I freely admit I am an old fashioned sort!

Some have called this "KCAL News" branding awkward and odd because the indepdendent's calls were chosen instead of the heritage CBS station's.  But when you consider the eyemark is seen not only in all KCAL newscasts but graces the floor under the anchor desk,  the station is for all practical purposes no longer an indie but a second CBS O&O.    From 2003 until last week,  the CBS eye was purposely absent from all KCAL 9 News graphic design.

The set is pretty darned nice  (so is KTLA's).  It looks much more vast than the old KCAL set it replaced.   It almost looks too big in a way;  the weather and traffic anchors seem kind of small sitting at those desks.   The audio seemed flat the other day, almost like the sound of people talking in a big empty hall.   Somebody said it, and I agree:   re the glitches and imperfections,  this is the kind of thing KTLA would pull off perfectly.

"The Desk" feature I like a little better than some others here do;  it isn't the first time in L.A. that kind of thing has been done;  KCOP's brief "Real News" in the mid-1990s or so had Ross Becker and others strolling around the newsroom and stopping at the assignment desk.  Boy did that idea go south fast...

O&O graphic design, music, etc, has been standardized by parent networks for a long time, but this CBS reworking finishes off most all local identity, making newscasts replicas of the network version.  I'd like to see stations retain SOME unique qualities, like channel numbers...  but I guess modern TV viewing and streaming makes clicking a number on the remote less relevant.  (It's odd that WCBS hasn't changed a thing yet)

It was a jolt to go through the Web site and see every reference to CBS 2,  CBS 2 News,  KCBS, etc absolutely gone.  The station that revolutionized local news in 1960,  the station of Dunphy,  Bill Stout, Clete Roberts,  Joseph Benti, Connie Chung, and others deserves something a little better than that --  even if its news ratings have been at the bottom of the heap for a long time.

On 11/1/2022 at 8:05 PM, CircleSeven said:

So the press release states that Rudabeh will be paired with Jamie on the 7-10am portion. 

 

Kalyna will solo anchor the 4am half-hour, as well as traffic anchor throughout the show.

 

And assuming they're keeping Marci & Chris on the 4:30-7 portion, who's going to anchor the 10am hour? 

 

I guess Mike Rogers' "The Desk" assignment-editor segments will be a feature.  I would think (and hope)  that Amy Johnson will be a part of the block.

There is no more clue to any kind of launch date for  the seven-hour KCAL morning news block than there was in mid-July.   But its noon newscast today did have some new and I thought intriguing interstices --  in line with CBS News imaging with the lighter blue  and a flash of an "Anywhere, Anytime" branding  (or maybe the other way around,  it was so fast).  Alas, KCBS's evening shows revealed nothing of the kind.  I still think they're messing with our minds... 

On 10/24/2022 at 9:55 PM, 24994J said:

 

The design language matches what we've seen across other CBS News properties. It definitely might not be the final form, but I can guarantee that it's something that was thrown out.

 

 

While the 2016 package, in its original state, is totally fine, so many stations have tweaked their own looks to the point where there are some major inconsistencies, from market to market. Post-Moonves CBS has created a unifying brand that, at least to me, is meant to keep everyone in-line. And for the record, TT Norms is not, and was never previously the font for the 2016 package. That lack of attention to detail pokes some holes in this opinion.

 

 

All signs point to KABC having a new look on the horizon (within the year, weeks, or even days), with the current package lasting so long only because the final details of a groupwide look are being ironed out. And your thought about KTLA is shared with me.

You're absolutely right of course about the difference between the 2016 look and TT Norms Pro, which I should have discerned.   While the latter's been integrated somewhat into the stations' current look,   the font on the L3s is not the same.  And the "News" font under the O&O station logo goes back years and years.    It used to be that a new look would often  be introduced to coincide with the start of a new Nielsen book, but maybe the old "sweeps" idea is irrelevant in these times, particularly in the larger markets.

•  From my comment-conversations with the YT uploaders of those "sizzle reels",   it seems it's pretty much that  "I got this from a guy who got it from a guy who says another guy leaked it to him..." In other words, take it for what it's worth.
•  
• Actually, when you think about it,   while those of us who follow this are tired of the 2016 O&O graphics and have been hearing about an update so long... what might we expect in the way of an overhaul? ...the current look isn't  necessarily dinosaur tracks;  the L3s and  most everything else  are in the same default TT Norms Pro with the CBS soft blue;   some of the over-the-shoulders and sidebars and weather graphics have been spruced up a bit;  the streaming versions of the newscasts have all the latest CBS  touches ;  the stations seem to have a lot of latitude with promos and branding, back and forth with channel number and CBS News identity.   
• And for other Los Angeles-station viewers,  I believe KABC's graphics date to October 2015 and KTLA's are exactly six years old, though a new set in the making could bring a new look.

On 10/12/2022 at 5:41 AM, Geoffrey said:

 

It definitely seems messy from our perspective of comparing different stations across the country. A new package IS coming, but it seems there were delays (possibly with management changes) and stations were eager to get something in place for the fall. So they're using elements that were given to them or creating their own takes of the network look in the interim.

That makes perfect sense, I think.

I see absolutely no organized plan or blueprint for this long-touted "rearchitecture" (to use member Samantha's term)  of rendering O&O newscasts as local replications of the CBS News brand.  All that can be seen after many months of hype is just a grab-bag of different looks, styles, and sounders that vary from market to market from day to day and hour to hour, an awkward muddle of branding.

2 hours ago, compubit said:

This varies depending on the platform, the market and where you’re watching it from. I can run CBS News app on Apple TV, Pluto TV, and my laptop (web) from the same house and get different commercials of different lengths.  I have noticed if I watch CBS DFW from Dallas (parents house), I get more ads (and local ones at that), vs. watching it in DC (fewer 

and more national, but sometimes a random DC Local), specially since CBS doesn’t have an O&O in DC…

 

I have no problem with calling the service  “CBS News Los Angeles” (look back to the 60s at WMAQ’s news was produced by NBC News Chicago), but I would treat it with a  “You’re watching CBS News Los Angeles on CBS 2 and online.” - and only include the “location” (OTA, Streaming, App-specific) as appropriate.

 

Jim

 I think that kind of branding would be just right.  And certainly through the years, now I think about it,  there's been some blending of network and local news identities  --  while I wasn't around to see it,  Robert Trout anchored WCBS's newscasts in the '60s,  it was kind of a New York version of CBS News almost.  I'm sure there are other similar exam

I mostly watch the KCBS and KCAL streams and that of KPIX,   sometimes WCBS and others, all of which are out of my home market  (there is no O&O in my Salinas-Monterey area in California.)  I see much more "You're watching..."  and a lot fewer ads, and even fewer are local to the area.

33 minutes ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

I didn’t get it at first either, and I’ll try to simplify what I think they’re doing as best I can. CBS knows that local news is more identifiable w/ viewers than the national network. That’s a problem for them, given that CBS national newscasts don’t perform well in the ratings. By slapping the “CBS News” name onto local newscasts in cities like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Boston, the CBS News brand effectively becomes more regional. The hope is that viewers identify their local newscasts with CBS News as a whole, and that they stay w/ their CBS News station for national news rather than flipping the channel.

 

CBS also wants to push local/national streaming, given the rise of OTT services, and also wants to integrate the operations of local streaming services. The best way they can do that is by having everyone brand around the network, rather than have the channel number on TV, the CBSN brand for streaming news, etc.

 

 

I have no idea if this would actually accomplish the first goal of increasing viewership, and I don’t see myself wanting to watch the CBS Evening News in my market just because WCBS doesn’t call itself CBS2 anymore. However, it would accomplish the goal of integrating the network in a streaming-heavy world. The current “awkward muddle” of brandings is because they’re transitioning. In NY, there are now more references to CBS New York than CBS 2 in station promos. I can’t really speak for the other cities, though.

Those are some very good points.  And from them I agree,   the transition may be more about getting eyes and ears on CBS' streaming platforms than air, indeed. Go to any local O&O site and scroll to see the "CBS News" stream from other markets,  Pluto TV offers the same.  If streaming will overtake the old fashioned remote, if it hasn't already, than this is an easy way to offer the CBS brand.   I may be too old fashioned for my own good,  I like local-channel IDs.   

This does certainly rope all local stations into a corral to be clicked on easily under the CBS brand, and who knows,  it may help news viewers get interested in the network's prime-time programming, or that of Paramount +.        I can say that the stations I watch,  KCBS / KCAL for instance,   are in transition too,  the duopoly seems to be putting CBS News Los Angeles right alongside CBS 2 / KCAL 9,  the look is different in every promo,  it kind of makes me wonder what the final identity is going to be,  that's where I dreamed up the "muddle" term.

It seems to me that one thing that needs work is on the streaming newscasts, where there is a way-too-long  ad-less lag during commercial  breaks,   the "You're Watching CBS News (region) /   We'll Be Right Back" deal...

On 8/29/2022 at 6:44 PM, Samantha said:

This is a large rearchitecture. The reason it has taken this long is simply because of how comprehensive it is.

 

Of the four O&O chains, CBS has the most problems ailing its. Most of the stations are ratings fixer-uppers and have spent two decades or more in such a condition. There was no news in Detroit. Post-Dunn and Friend, something radical needed to be done. And the investment in News and the fact that there is actual innovation and renewal in News are all to be hailed.

 

If you watched the first night of the new Evening News look, you might have noticed the text elements listing places where CBS News has bureaus. There's London...Rome...Johannesburg...Atlanta...oh yeah, and Sacramento and Baltimore. News and Stations in a nutshell.

 

There is a lot going on. A visual overhaul, the first top-to-bottom one at Stations in nearly a decade; a restructuring internally; the continued effects of the Paramount Global merger, etc.; the launch of news in Detroit; and the shift to a streaming-first or -co-first mentality at every outpost in Stations. This does not happen overnight.

 

Why are we so excited? Because there is a sense of renewal at CBS that is long-deserved and needed. Because they are fixing, finally on a comprehensive level, a historic inequity in Detroit, and they are making the right moves in doing it. Because there is a pathbreaking branding approach.

 

ABC has too many successful news franchises in its markets to do this. NBC has too many, and it also has Telemundo; it's hard to have that sort of fusion of national and local news when there are two separate networks (with separate teams) to feed and all of the NBC newsrooms it runs are bilingual. Fox fundamentally cannot do this without compromising and tainting its local news product to a significant portion of the audience.

All this being said, and eloquently,   (it almost reads like a press release) I , a viewer and I think a longtime one with some sophistication,  am simply unable to grasp the connection that  Wendy McMahon and Neeraj Khelmani are so enthusiastically trying to forge between CBS News and local-station operations,  trying to make them one and the same. They are two very different entities.    Local viewers identify with their channels and personalities.   I can't see how, for instance,  making KCBS '  morning block (or KCAL's, if such a thing ever comes to pass) "CBS News Los Angeles"  will turn viewers away from other choices;  many are watching KTLA instead of "CBS Mornings" anyway.  This is not to be harsh;   it's what the numbers say.   I can understand graphic design, music, etc, to be standardized, probably more for cost reasons  than any other,   but to me this year-and-a-half-long attempt at trying to somehow combine  network news and local identity seems to be a task that has bitten off more than it can chew,   as of October creating an ever more awkward muddle of brandings and looks.    

On 7/12/2022 at 11:16 AM, TVNewsLover said:

Well this is stupid. While it may benefit KCAL, it’ll probably hurt KCBS. Who wants to watch 2 hours of national news and features at 4am and then almost an exact repeat at 7am? Would it not make more sense to simulcast the 4-7am local newscast on 2&9 instead?

In the three months after this significant announcement,  there has been not a word since about any specifics or even a launch date.  All the releases refer to the "planned"  news block "expected" to start "in the fall."    The duopoly's Web site or social media pages offer no indication that such a thing is imminent.    The only hire is Jamie Yuccas, who is not really a hire;  she's already been working in the building for a long time and is evidently going to devote a few extra hours to KCAL while maintaining all her other CBS-platform duties.

I know nothing about this, but I wouldn't expect anything for quite a while.

On 9/18/2022 at 11:24 AM, kshow said:

WCBS-TV premiered a new political show today (Sunday). Take a look at the graphics...

It looks really nice, but same corner channel bug, same TT Norms Pro font, no indication of any upheaval soon.

On 9/18/2022 at 11:32 PM, Yankees4life said:

I'm sure the few low powered Indy stations here won't mind picking it up. It's either that or one of the bigger affiliates (ie. WSVN or WPLG) will put it on their subchannels

I do care, or at least I did,  it's kind of an offbeat hobby of mine,  local-news presentation, especially Los Angeles stations, that's my home base.   As for new CBS O&O graphics, or for ABC's too,   following this is like kicking the dust where a dead horse used to lie.

On 9/23/2022 at 11:54 AM, detroiter313 said:

Does station management at any TV station in any market (especially Los Angeles) get really upset when a news anchor announces that he or she will move to the competition?

No.  Many of the biggest names  in Los Angeles television have all moved to the competition at one time or another, for more money or a better time slot,  and sometimes back to where they'd been: Clete Roberts,  George Putnam,  Bill Stout, Joe Benti,  John Schubeck,  Warren Olney, Tritia Toyota, Jess Marlow, Paul Moyer, Ann Martin, Jim Hill,  Linda Alvarez,  Colleen Williams, Chuck Henry, Micah Ohlman,  and  of course Jerry Dunphy.   It's a way of life in the business;   Lynette Romero's situation, whether dissatisfaction with contract or daypart,  and departure up the dial, is not usually the kind of thing that sends the station descending into Dante's ninth circle of hell.

Well, good for Mark Mester for sticking up for not only a long-time co-anchor but one of the best, most popular and well-liked.   However --  

--there must have been a way for him to do so without throwing the whole station into chaos.     He passionately called his employers a bunch of horrible people, dishonorable and heartless, and perhaps without even knowing it,  made his boss the GM look like either a figurehead, a corporate pawn in allowing this to happen,  or a hypocrite,  for claiming to be Lynette's supporter and then throwing her under a train.    You can't do that and expect your management to accept it.          He will probably wind up hosting "Daily Mail" or something.

You know, Calitalian 2,  it's funny,   I read that article the very Friday morning it appeared in the Times, and several times afterward too,      but --                                                                                                                                 

--you are absolutely right about that,  it  had escaped me that their respective divorces were final early in 1990.    Beyond that, in a larger sense I think you and I have pretty much nailed down this story,  still an interesting one I  think.  It's good to chat with those who remember what others might dismiss as unimportant.  Thanks for engaging me in this.

About the same time as Nikki Finke's piece,  the Daily News ran a similar story,  not quite as long.  It was written maybe by Ray Richmond, but more likely by the paper's other television writer whose name I simply can't pull up.  It's on the tip of my mind's tongue, but nothing.

Remember the scurrilous things the old Los Angeles magazine columnist Tom Nolan wrote about Jim and Bree?