Tornado Warning Tues Night/Weds. AM

[wabceyewitness 767]

Tornado Warning issued for Nassau County with possible tornado confirmed by NWS Doppler. WABC is live, cutting into Nightline around 11:55pm and again just before 12:15am, with Jeff Smith in weather center.

 

Not just saying this because I'm a WABC fan... but kudos to them for keeping someone back after the 11pm knowing that extremely severe weather could hit tonight.

 

I turned to WCBS, WNBC and WNYW but didn't catch anything. I know they all scrolled the mandated NWS statement, but does anyone know if anyone else cut in?

[TrfRptr 3]

Yeah, they may have been the only ones.

 

I live in Northern Nassau and I'm quite shocked that nobody was really paying much attention to it. I mean, it wasn't a watch, it was a WARNING!!!

 

People's lives at risk and nobody in TV seemed to care (minus WABC). I'm sorry though, two cut-ins? If Doppler picked up a tornado, that warrants wall-to-wall coverage until the weather breaks.

[nynewsguy 66]

If there had been a confirmed tornado on the ground, there would have been more extensive coverage, at least from WABC. Lee Goldberg regularly stays around until 12:30am, especially when weather is brewing - so Jeff probably took a page from his boss. Remember though - this isn't the midwest, and wall-to-wall coverage of a severe storm isn't the norm around here.

 

The rest of the weather talent around NY have a history of walking out of the station the minute the late news is over.

 

The only time you'll regularly find extensive coverage of a weather story in the tri-state is when there is a blizzard or coastal storm. We rarely have hurricanes around here (and are long overdue) and blizzards are here and there.

 

Yeah, they may have been the only ones.

 

I live in Northern Nassau and I'm quite shocked that nobody was really paying much attention to it. I mean, it wasn't a watch, it was a WARNING!!!

 

People's lives at risk and nobody in TV seemed to care (minus WABC). I'm sorry though, two cut-ins? If Doppler picked up a tornado, that warrants wall-to-wall coverage until the weather breaks.

[Evening Magazine 18]

Wow, Sue wouldn't even do a break-in.

 

'da f*** were they thinking?

[TrfRptr 3]

You're right, it's not the Midwest. Which is even more of a reason to break in for weather that is actually threatening (ala doppler indicated tornado). Too many times weather cut-ins are overblown for nothing, but I think this warranted more coverage. Certainly at midnight, opposed to 8PM when people are watching.

 

Turned out to just be a severe storm and no tornado, through Nassau anyway.

[nynewsguy 66]

As I said, if there had actually been a spotted tornado, with visual confirmation, there would have been more coverage.. but there are doppler indicated tornados in more severe storms than you realize. In the past week, there has been 7 doppler indicated tornados in tri-state area. This was the first one on Long Island, but there were 2 in nj, 3 in ulster county, ny, and 1 in fairfield county, ct. None of them turned out to spawn actual tornados...

 

 

You're right, it's not the Midwest. Which is even more of a reason to break in for weather that is actually threatening (ala doppler indicated tornado). Too many times weather cut-ins are overblown for nothing, but I think this warranted more coverage. Certainly at midnight, opposed to 8PM when people are watching.

 

Turned out to just be a severe storm and no tornado, through Nassau anyway.

[TrfRptr 3]

I know a bit about the weather, and I understand totally what you are saying.

 

Anytime a torando is spotted or indicated by Doppler, a Tornado Warning is issued. If nothing is indicated, a Watch is issued. Anytime a Warning for tornadoes is issued, in my opinion, coverage so be available.

 

People less educated about the weather should not have to sit at home pondering if an F2 is coming down the pike at them. And the severity of the issue is heightened when a Warning is issued.

 

Just saying a little bit of coverage wouldn't have killed the mets to stay around longer with the potential in the skies.

[shorewx 1]

Just to recap..That storm blossomed out of nowhere over Sussex county last night. The weather service had a severe storm watch up until 7pm.. by 9pm and around 11pm's newscasts nothing was going on. A rouge storm complex with upper level dynamics really went bonkers over bergan county well after the 11pm newscast and then entered yonkers spawning what you call a super celled storm which triggered the tornado warning. In defense of us 11pm er's .. nothing was noted on radar of heavy significance during our shift. Why jeff smith was there or sticking around is a bit odd to me.

 

If there was a tornado watch up till 1am... then i along with everyone would have stayed!

[qwertnyc 1]

I was watching New 4 at 11p last night and before any other news coverage they cut to Janice Huff. Either during that break or the regular weather segment she indicated that either a Severe Weather Watch or Warning (I can't remember which) was issued for several counties, including Bergen. She stated that the storm was capable of small hail, damaging winds in excess of 60 mph (both criteria for severe storms). She specifically mentioned that it appeared that there was rotation in the storm and a watch/warnings might be issued for Westchester. She also pointed out that Yonkers would probably be affected.

[Vlad 276]

Unless there is a "hook echo" indicated in the radar, that is really the only way a Tornado or funnel cloud is indeed present. In that case there was no hook echo on Doppler 4000 (WNBC) nor Accu-Track (WABC). A common misconception that many seem to misunderstand is that tornadoes are always visible. That may not be the case all the time. Tornadoes are invisible to the naked eye, especially during the night time. Tornadoes are only seen during the day because the dust and debris circulates around the storm forming the identifiable shape and look of a tornado and funnel cloud.

 

Although a Tornado Warning was issued, there was no Tornado reported yesterday. What occurred last night was not a tornado, but a downburst or downdraft which is basically a sudden high speed downward flow of air, resulting in all of the downed trees and power outages.

[TrfRptr 3]

National Weather Service Doppler Radar indicated a tornado, thus the reason a Tornado Warning was issued. A Doppler tornado and an actual tornado are two different things (keeping in mind a tornado is only a tornado if it touches the ground). Warnings are issued for either/or...always.

 

There were no reports today after surveying damage that an actual tornado touched down anywhere. And it doesn't matter what Doppler 9000 or Viper (or whatever) picks up, it ONLY matters what the NWS Doppler picks up, thus why the NWS is the only agency that can issue weather advisories. You can't have 15 mets at 6 different stations all saying different things about storms, etc.

 

What I'm trying to say, the word tornado is used loosely when referencing Tornado Watch/Warnings. It's all about the ability of a super-cell to 'produce' a tornado, thus a Watch. If Doppler or wind velocities (vertical and perpendicular) are creating conditions (thus called a hook, or echo, or hook echo) that could spawn a tornado a Warning is issued.

 

Watch = Potential

Warning = Occurring or Conducive

 

Applies for both thunderstorms and tornadoes.

 

 

And not to argue semantics Vlad, a hook echo is not the only indicator of a tornado, wind velocities and updrafts could also spawn tornadoes, but more advanced models besides Doppler are used in determining those issues.

[nynewsguy 66]

Vlad is right. The only true way of telling if there is a tornado "on the ground" via radar is by the signature of a "hook echo" - which is usually along a "bow echo" - a line of severe storms. Modern doppler radars have the ability to indicate rotation in storms, but they are estimates, based solely on certain criterium that the system looks at. If you look at a doppler radar image, you will see this indicated by a black spot. That's the radar's way of telling you there is rotation in the storm.. however, that by no means guarantees a tornado, or even means there will be one. Just there is some level of upper-level rotation going on.

 

Unless there is a "hook echo" indicated in the radar, that is really the only way a Tornado or funnel cloud is indeed present. In that case there was no hook echo on Doppler 4000 (WNBC) nor Accu-Track (WABC). A common misconception that many seem to misunderstand is that tornadoes are always visible. That may not be the case all the time. Tornadoes are invisible to the naked eye, especially during the night time. Tornadoes are only seen during the day because the dust and debris circulates around the storm forming the identifiable shape and look of a tornado and funnel cloud.

 

Although a Tornado Warning was issued, there was no Tornado reported yesterday. What occurred last night was not a tornado, but a downburst or downdraft which is basically a sudden high speed downward flow of air, resulting in all of the downed trees and power outages.

 

TrfRptr - You have valid points as well, although you'll never see a NY meteorologist causing a stir about a tornado warning until the NWS issues an actual sighting, or someone calls it in. This all dates back to 1995 - there was a meterologist named Veronica Johnson at channel 7. (she's who Art McFarland - then Lee Goldberg replaced). She broke into programming on a Saturday and miscalled a tornado which never happened, then the next day, there was a tornado that blew through the south shore of Long Island (I was a witness to it) and she didn't show up on air for the cut-in until about 20 minutes after it was over. It was her last day on air.

 

Keep something in mind - in general terms, a WATCH means that conditions are favorable and condusive to the forewarned areas. a WARNING means that the conditions are occuring and is imminent, EXCEPT for a Tornado Warning, which is more like a Severe Thunderstorm Warning than anything else. In the northeast, 99% of the time, no tornado occurs from a storm that produces a tornado warning - this is why Severe Thunderstorm Warnings are taken much more seriously around here than are Tornado warnings.

 

 

National Weather Service Doppler Radar indicated a tornado, thus the reason a Tornado Warning was issued. A Doppler tornado and an actual tornado are two different things (keeping in mind a tornado is only a tornado if it touches the ground). Warnings are issued for either/or...always.

 

There were no reports today after surveying damage that an actual tornado touched down anywhere. And it doesn't matter what Doppler 9000 or Viper (or whatever) picks up, it ONLY matters what the NWS Doppler picks up, thus why the NWS is the only agency that can issue weather advisories. You can't have 15 mets at 6 different stations all saying different things about storms, etc.

 

What I'm trying to say, the word tornado is used loosely when referencing Tornado Watch/Warnings. It's all about the ability of a super-cell to 'produce' a tornado, thus a Watch. If Doppler or wind velocities (vertical and perpendicular) are creating conditions (thus called a hook, or echo, or hook echo) that could spawn a tornado a Warning is issued.

 

Watch = Potential

Warning = Occurring or Conducive

 

Applies for both thunderstorms and tornadoes.

 

 

And not to argue semantics Vlad, a hook echo is not the only indicator of a tornado, wind velocities and updrafts could also spawn tornadoes, but more advanced models besides Doppler are used in determining those issues.

[mediadorkx07 0]

Anytime a tornado watch or warning is posted in Connecticut, the stations here go wall-to-wall until the warning expires... and rightfully so.

 

Although they may not materialize, sometimes they do. In fact, two weeks ago a warning was issued - the stations went wall to wall - and a tornado did touch down.

 

It pays to be on the air during severe weather, of any kind, whether it technically happens or not.

[nynewsguy 66]

Anytime a tornado watch or warning is posted in Connecticut, the stations here go wall-to-wall until the warning expires... and rightfully so.

 

Although they may not materialize, sometimes they do. In fact, two weeks ago a warning was issued - the stations went wall to wall - and a tornado did touch down.

 

It pays to be on the air during severe weather, of any kind, whether it technically happens or not.

 

What market? Hartford I'd assume? New Haven? You've got to understand something... this is New York. There are cut ins here, but if you notice they'll often be at the top/bottom of the hour, and during a regular commercial break. NY DMA covers a lot of area, and people in Fairfield CT don't care if there is a tornado warning in Monmouth County, NJ - likewise those in Montauk, NY don't care what's going on in Rockland. That's the realistic truth. You can't logically go "wall-to-wall" when you cover such a broad area unless the problem is actually going to effect the majority of the area (like a blizzard or hurricane). To expect anything more than a cut-in for a warning (thunderstorm, etc) it's not going to happen. That's why there is the crawl on TWC, and for those of you who have cablevision, there is News12 Traffic & Weather. Those are dedicated "weather stations".... If you don't have cable - I'd suggest investing in a weather radio. It will go nuts everytime there is a warning issued - and you'll see that the warned areas are often no where near you.

 

And another question - if a warning is posted at 1am, you're telling me that the stations up in CT have mets on hand to go "wall-to-wall?"

[TrfRptr 3]

So in other words, the lives of those in danger must affect a large number before the stations take responsibility to warn a small number of people that there lives may be in danger? (slight sarcasm there)

 

I grew up in the Midwest, Indiana-tristate, and I guess I just expect a little bit more.

[mediadorkx07 0]

What market? Hartford I'd assume? New Haven? You've got to understand something... this is New York. There are cut ins here, but if you notice they'll often be at the top/bottom of the hour, and during a regular commercial break. NY DMA covers a lot of area, and people in Fairfield CT don't care if there is a tornado warning in Monmouth County, NJ - likewise those in Montauk, NY don't care what's going on in Rockland. That's the realistic truth. You can't logically go "wall-to-wall" when you cover such a broad area unless the problem is actually going to effect the majority of the area (like a blizzard or hurricane). To expect anything more than a cut-in for a warning (thunderstorm, etc) it's not going to happen. That's why there is the crawl on TWC, and for those of you who have cablevision, there is News12 Traffic & Weather. Those are dedicated "weather stations".... If you don't have cable - I'd suggest investing in a weather radio. It will go nuts everytime there is a warning issued - and you'll see that the warned areas are often no where near you.

 

And another question - if a warning is posted at 1am, you're telling me that the stations up in CT have mets on hand to go "wall-to-wall?"

 

At 1am, they will run a crawl. One station will do that until the met comes in early. I work nightside, and I've seen it before.

[nynewsguy 66]

So in other words, the lives of those in danger must affect a large number before the stations take responsibility to warn a small number of people that there lives may be in danger? (slight sarcasm there)

 

I grew up in the Midwest, Indiana-tristate, and I guess I just expect a little bit more.

 

I never said that. lol. You said that you expect "wall-to-wall" coverage. I said that's too much to expect here in New York. All the stations did the gov't mandated EAS crawl, and channel 7 had Jeff Smith on 2x after the late news to update viewers. Anyone who was watching 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 on Tuesday night would have been forewarned of the tornado warning, and been able to do whatever neccessary to protect themselves if they felt like their lives were in danger. If you want to see more than that, it's got to be a hurricane/blizzard... or the aftermath of a weather event.

[TrfRptr 3]

Sorry newsguy, I wasn't saying that's what you said, I was speaking that the perception comes across that way. (my bad, failure to communicate properly)

 

I specifically recall Elise Finch (Ch. 2) saying at 11 that the storms moving through were nothing like the intensity of the ones earlier in the day. Well, that doesn't mean anything to me because I didn't get any storms earlier in the day. I can't speak for the other channels and what there mets said, but I believe at the time only T-storm Watches were out for Westchester County, and perhaps Bergen. No Tornado Watch and certainly not a Warning.

 

And I understand (now) what I'm going to get from TV stations around here when severe weather breaks out late at night...nothing.

[mediadorkx07 0]

In this case, I don't think anyone can blame the stations. At 1am, the nightside crew is usually long gone.

 

I understand if there is severe weather moving through, most meteorologists will hang around for a bit... but in this case, if nothing was on the radar, at 11:35pm the crew is getting into their cars.

 

The fact Channel 7 still had a few people there was most likely just a fluke.

[nynewsguy 66]

Sorry newsguy, I wasn't saying that's what you said, I was speaking that the perception comes across that way. (my bad, failure to communicate properly)

 

I specifically recall Elise Finch (Ch. 2) saying at 11 that the storms moving through were nothing like the intensity of the ones earlier in the day. Well, that doesn't mean anything to me because I didn't get any storms earlier in the day. I can't speak for the other channels and what there mets said, but I believe at the time only T-storm Watches were out for Westchester County, and perhaps Bergen. No Tornado Watch and certainly not a Warning.

 

And I understand (now) what I'm going to get from TV stations around here when severe weather breaks out late at night...nothing.

 

No need to apologize. You were just stating things as you saw them...

 

I understand the frustrations... but there would have to be huge story (like a tornado in Manhattan, actually touching down) for there to be someone live on the air, between the hours of 12am and 4am. It's just not going to happen. It's pretty much the only time of day when all the "on-camera" talent is home.

[NewsMan 0]

there was a meterologist named Veronica Johnson at channel 7. (she's who Art McFarland - then Lee Goldberg replaced). She broke into programming on a Saturday and miscalled a tornado which never happened, then the next day, there was a tornado that blew through the south shore of Long Island (I was a witness to it) and she didn't show up on air for the cut-in until about 20 minutes after it was over. It was her last day on air.

.

 

I think Veronica is now at WRC as the 4PM meteorologist.