TServo2049

No, I don't believe that any of those are Klein &. To my ear, KTVY 1980 seems to have been done in Dallas. I definitely recognize one of the singers in the promo. I initially thought it might have been produced by Otis Conner, but when I linked him to the promo on Facebook, he said he wasn't responsible for it. (He did, however, confirm to RNYN that he had done WROC 1992 - that came from me noticing that it sounded like a package he did for KCBS-AM here in San Francisco, which I remember from my childhood.)

stevieboy247, where did you hear that Elias did the WBBM 1988 theme? I can't find any info anywhere.

I will try to get confirmation as soon as I can, but these are people I've never contacted before, so it'll take longer. And as I said, my day job takes precedence.

And as for KWGN - which package do you think might have been the Terry Fryer one? ASCAP also lists an image campaign and a movie theme. I can't find any promos or movie opens/bumpers from KWGN in that period - if I could, maybe I could find a melody that matched one of the news themes...

"Oh, What a Good Friend" wasn't one of the ones listed in the Copyright Office, but that doesn't mean it wasn't them. I was just saying there were compositions listed that were dated as early as 1980. There's "Hey, Look at Us", "Hold That Smile" and "You're Gonna Fall for Us" all dated 1980 (don't know if any of these were used) and "WG"N"tertains You" from 1982 (I know this was - a program with that title shows up in TV listings from '82, and someone on FuzzyMemories says the WGN-tertains You music was used on the Late Movie in the late 80s/early 90s.) Ted Kay was formerly a writer in WGN's Sales Department before he co-founded TMK-Elias, so they probably did a lot of WGN's custom music in the 70s-80s. Perhaps it was even a Frank Gari/WEWS situation, where they did all of it. As for KWGN, ASCAP lists a package by Terry Fryer, but I don't know which one it was out of the four unknown themes in NMSA.

The WGN 1984 promo campaign was by a Chicago production company called TMK-Elias. The lyricist of the promo song, Lynn Sanders, mentions it in her bio. Since the 1984 news theme has the same melody, I'd wager they did it too. (BMI lists "WGN News" and "We're Chicago's Very Own" written by Sheldon Elias, and the U.S. Copyright Office lists "We're Chicago's Very Own" by Sheldon Elias and Theodore M. Kay. No mention of Lynn Sanders, but whatever...) TMK-Elias also did other campaigns for WGN that are listed in the Copyright Office, some dated 1980. So not only do I have a hunch they did the 1980 news theme, but perhaps they did "WGN: Oh, What a Good Friend" too. Oh, and BMI also lists two more curiosities for Sheldon Elias: "WHTM News Package" and "WISC TV News Package". Perhaps those are their respective "I Love Chicago"-alike packages? Sheldon Elias is no longer with us, but Ted Kay is still alive and kicking. Maybe he'd know.

Glad to see this. I had been thinking KRCG 1986 might be connected to News 4, but I never even thought about the "All We Are, We Are For You" connection...wow. Also, I'm kind of curious as to why it was titled News 4 (at least at one point in time), yet none of the known clients were on channel 4...

Yes, that's the Roger Tallman theme. He won a regional Emmy for it. And I've confirmed with him over phone/email that he didn't do the KTNV/WCHS theme; the "WBNS 1983" theme is the one Tallman did.

Yes, NewsActive3 specifically acknowledges C.A. Lee III in the video containing those Alabama/Florida clips. Some of the Orlando clips also showed up on an earlier iteration of Roger Simmons' site (back when it had video clips). It's clear that Mr. Lee has been around since the early days of tape trading - because while he was the person who circulated the clips, they still originated from other unknown people (even Lee's versions are several generations removed from the original recordings).

Very interesting. Maybe Gari licensed it - he licensed Cool Hand Luke for NS2000, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. (And remember Telesound licensing Classical Gas - there was also a cut in TM's "Where You Belong" which incorporated Classical Gas, since WBAL was using the Telesound version concurrently with "WYB.") I've been trying to get in contact w/ David Lucas too (about another theme he may have done - ASCAP lists him and Tom McFaul as doing a WRGB news theme which may be WRGB 1986) The main Great News theme did not originate from this "We're with You" promo song - the verse melody was just worked into several cuts. And remember that the "We're with You on 11 Alive" musical phrase already originated from Gari, via the original Hello News song - specifically, the ending of the Florence Warner version. (That phrase was even worked into one cut of the 1983 Hello News update - the notes match up with WXIA's earlier Hello tagline "It's All Right Here on 11 Alive.")

News '80s was introduced on WGHP in about 1980. It doesn't sound anything like WLOX 1990, it just has the same musical phrase at the end. The problem with a lot of these companies is that their stuff isn't listed in ASCAP, or BMI, or the Copyright Office...

Please do look into old Silvertree if you can. Bo Donovan is no longer with us, and the old website is gone (along with the audio samples) so any help would be immensely appreciated. Otis Conner had no connection to Silvertree that I know of; Conner was (and still is) in Dallas, while Silvertree was in San Diego. (And I think Soundtrack was based in Boston at the time? I wonder if "The Image Leader" was originally made for WCVB's Chronicle...) That WLOX 1990 theme does indeed remind me of VTS - the ending matches the early-80s WGHP theme VTS did (the demo calls it "News '80s"; it's not listed in NMSA, though the listing of WGHP using the 80s KENS package may actually be referring to News '80s - because the close has an almost identical musical phrase to that heard at the end of the KENS theme) I'll ask Hal when I can.

That does answer some questions. And yes, feel free to PM me. I'm especially intrigued by the CBS affiliate stuff. I can think of at least one other package in the NMSA that may well be a CBS affil package, but is not yet explicitly identified as such.

How do you know KTLA 1990 is VTS? I'm in contact with Hal Brown, the guy who founded and ran VTS, but I never asked about KTLA '90. I will do it next time I talk to him, though. I do know that the original '82 package is not from VTS. As to CBS 1988, what makes you 99.9% sure it's Gari? I've talked to Frank Gari over the phone exactly once, and that was years ago. If I can get in contact with him again, I'll certainly ask about that one. I'm wary about unsourced identifications and guesses, and I know the NMSA webmaster is too (which could be why he never changed the year of WJSU "1985"). I don't report guesses to NMSA, only confirmed info. And I know about Raymie's secret project - I'm the one trying to confirm his find (from the same source who gave me the publisher ID for the package about 5-6 years ago), but I haven't gotten a response for whatever reason. I will try again; this person has been helpful before. I will look into all these in the near future, it's just that I've just been very busy with my actual job.

So WXIA was already using the new logo and the new Gari theme (and the Alive-less "11 News" moniker) at the end of '93? I know this is a NYE broadcast with Auld Lang Syne as the closing music, but would it be safe to assume they had also dropped the Hello News v.1 close (which was still in use on the 11pm newscast earlier in '93)? There's also from late summer '93 touting the early-evening lineup for the coming fall - notice the presence of both the "11 News" graphics, and the older 11 Alive logo at the end. So I am guessing that the Gari theme debuted with the new graphics and name in fall '93 (meaning that both Wikipedia and NMSA are off by a year in dating "11 News" and the Gari custom). If only we had more 11 Alive footage from '93 (especially September-December)...

Yes, but it originated on WFIL, which was not Gateway. "KDFW 1979" seems to have been exclusive to the Times-Mirror group, and "KHOU-WISH 1981" seems to have been exclusive to the Corinthian group.

A commenter on one of the WVTM clips on Sean McPhail's old account recalled KTVI using the theme. (Since that account was deleted, I can't verify.) There is no pre-84 WSTM newscast footage online (save for a few clean "master" versions of individual reports), but there is a promo for Syracuse Bowls with the early-80s Times-Mirror logo design in evidence, so I'd bet they used the theme too. Are KDFW 1979 and KHOU-WISH 1981 the only early examples of packages which were not only station-group-wide, but station-group-*exclusive*? (Network O&Os/affiliates don't count.)

Hey Dontryl, I already PMed you about this, but: Would you please repost the KTBC 1983 intro that has the KDFW 1979 theme? KTBC's use of that theme still isn't listed on NMSA, and if we could have an audio sample again...

I noticed this already, because it was used by KDFW, WVTM and KTBC. NMSA doesn't list them, but TexasTVNews had an open on his old YT account. (Hey Dontryl, could you maybe reupload that sometime, please?)

Nope, it's the same theme. Listen to the ending stab in the WFLA clip, it matches the ending of the WLAC open. I'm not sure what the original unedited piece sounded like, but I think the WLAC clip is the ending. (I can tell that the edit WTLV and WFLA used was one bit looped over and over...) I know, it doesn't make any sense because WLAC was a CBS affiliate. But we don't know the actual origin of the music. It could have been a pre-existing piece that NBC affiliates took to in particular (a la Cool Hand Luke and ABC affiliates). Not sure we'll ever know the answer...

I can definitely believe that WFLA would have had "WTLV 1972" lying around for a long time, because it seems to have had some connection to NBC. Aside from WLAC and WJKS (if the NMSA dates are correct, and they were indeed using it as early as 1978), all other stations NMSA currently lists were NBC affiliates at the time they were using it. And those beeps at the beginning of the WFLA clip (as well as the KFDX and WCSH opens on NMSA) were also heard on NBC Radio's top-of-the-hour news for years.

Interesting observations. The only kink is that the copyright registration only mentions Grizzell, with nothing about VTS. That implies he wrote that musical signature himself. UPDATE: Just got off the phone with VTS founder Hal Brown, and the actual history of the package is exactly the reverse of your theory. Earl Grizzell did the original package (the one in the "Fantastic Four" clip from Dec. 85), and the revisions were done at VTS after Grizzell joined. Brown remembered going to London multiple times to record the symphonic versions. But since Grizzell was the author/owner of the original musical signature, only his name was on the copyright registration. So it's Grizzell's theme, but he did the revisions to it at VTS. I will probably still contact Grizzell, just for final final confirmation.

The U.S. Copyright Office lists Grizzell as composer of "Where the News Comes First" with a registration date of April 6, 1987, and a "date of creation" of 1986. NMSA says the theme debuted in 1986, not 1983/84. I believe that 80sTVThemes.com said the CGI intro debuted in 1984, but I am sure that was an error. There are clips from 1986 with the orchestral theme, but older graphics. And there's a YouTube clip with a different cut, which seems to be from December 1985. As far as I can tell, even though Grizzell's demo reel only shows the 1988 version, he wrote the original package, and it likely debuted sometime in 1985.

I've at least heard the music on NMSA, and it is indeed hilariously bad. It was clearly done on a consumer-grade Casio keyboard. I should know, because I used to have one with that exact rhythm preset.

Yes, I am pretty sure that WDIV theme was part of "mark II" of "Go 4 It", and was thus by Klein &. The long theme has the "Go 4 It" 3-note melody from the Phoebe Snow song. (Though interestingly, the open in the same TVbD demo has the musical logo from "Mark I"). In '84, they'd switch to a new theme by local composers Randy Jacobs and Luis Resto - also of the band Was (Not Was) - and go all in with the "TVbD look." Also from that TVbD reel - am I the only one who thinks that Gari WFSB theme isn't actually part of "The One for All"? Yes, the logo melody is similar, and WFSB did also use The One for All at some point, but this theme doesn't seem totally the same. The melody seems to be saying "The One and Only Channel 3."