rkolsen 1679 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 First off, let me give you a definition of simultaneous substitution or simsub for short. Simultaneous substitution is a Canadian low that requires cable and satellite TV companies to replace the American signal broadcasting a specific with the Canadian signal broadcasting the same exact episode. This was done so that an episode that is airing simultaneously in the US and Canada, Canadian cable television subscribers would watch commercials from the local Canadian station. Maybe it's my over thinking things but I am going to give an hypotetical example and I would appreciate it if you guys could tell me if it is correct or not: The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon airs at 11:35 am on the east and west coasts and the same time in the U.S. as it does in Canada. The Tonight Show is carried in Seattle's NBC Affiliate KING 5 and on Victoria, BC CTV Two Affiliate CIVI 17. KING 5, like many American television stations, is carried on the local cable systems in British Columbia. Then the clock strikes 11:35 The Tonight Show is being broadcast in the U.S. and Canada the only noticeable difference between the two broadcasts is that CIVI - CTV Two has a bug covering up the NBC Peacock and then the viewer flips over to KING 5 only to notice that the Peacock was covered up by the CTV Bug. Fallon finishes his monologue and goes to a commercial break. KING 5 has a promo promoting their new graphics to the tune of "This is Home" that is airing uninterrupted in the United States but in Canada KING's cable feed has been covered up with an advertisement that is promoting CIVI's extended newscast that is also airing simultaneously on CIVI. The continues on with CIVI's program stream covering up KING's stream during commercial break. The Tonight Show with JImmy Fallon ends and CIVI continues on to other programming while KING continues on to Late Night With Seth Meyers which is also simsubbed by CTV One on CIVT and the whole process repeats itself where the NBC Bug is covered up and the commercials are replaced with ones from CIVT. So I guess my assumptions anout simultaneous substitution are: The US' stations program stream will be replaced with that of the network who has the rights. Frequently the Canadian network will take the American feed covering up the logo On cable systems in Canada the rights holder to the show will be placed over top of the American station's stream. The only way a American stations stream will remain in tact is if a Canadian station does not invoke simsub rights. The whole reason I brought this up was that I saw an image where the NBC Peacock was covered up with the CTV Two logo making it seem that CTV Two was taking an US stations feed and overlaying their graphics on top of it. This leads me to one final question: Why doesn't production companies provide the Canadian television networks a clean feed of the program so they can have a clean feed to broadcast? The American networks would have to provide an exact time table of commercial breaks so one feed would not lose time on another feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED2 144 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Your assumptions are correct. The US station's signal on cable is COMPLETELY substituted by the local Canadian station. I would also like to add that simsubs generally do not occur between an American cable/broadcast network, and a Canadian cable network eg) ABC is not covered up by TSN during the NBA finals. Most shows are actually fed clean to Canadian stations, so you'll only see 1 bug - no coverups eg) Dramas, reality shows, comedies, otherwise things that can be sent to stations ahead of time. In live events, or programming that is played out directly from the American network's feed center/master control, you'll see either the US logo covered up by a Canadian logo, or both co-existing in separate areas of the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper550 268 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Except for Bell-sourced feeds. They've owned TSN in some way since 2000; Bell-owned TV services, and those who get their feeds from Bell, have TSN simsubs. Apparently Rogers did something similar with the World Series last year, overriding Fox with Sportsnet (cue the angry crowd of people who actually liked the commentators on the MLB International feed better than Joe Buck). But at least TSN simsubs for ESPN on ABC actually, most of the time, remove the ABC bug and 4:3 ticker (the latter often getting overridden by TSN's version of the BottomLine, which is just a slightly downgraded version of the glossy 16:9 one ESPN just dumped), making things actually look more like ESPN proper. And actually, the "cover up the logo with an ugly opaque one" trend actually ended recently. CTV now just co-brands its feeds (which got a little awkward during Olympic season, given CTV lost them back to CBC). On a related note, I've seen (well, specifically on our feeds of WCVB and KIRO) feeds of stations actually have local commercials in some cases replaced by Canadian direct-response ads (yes, because WCVB definitely runs ads for Flex Seal during the 5 p.m. news), and they've often opted out the Noon news entirely with just an infomercial. It's ... odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED2 144 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thanks. I've never had Bell TV (thank goodness), so I never knew they did that. On TELUS, I was able to watch ABC without any simsubs during the NBA finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEOMatrix 1295 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I remember watching NTV (CJON) airing of the Late Show on Youtube and NTV used a colorized bug of its logo to cover up the CBS eye. I honestly don't know if NTV still uses the colorized bug during simsub or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED2 144 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 They still do. NTV does its own thing, whether it suits the viewers' tastes or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist 894 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 CTV is often the cash cow of the sim sub rule, being that they are big offender. Let's take a look on Super Bowl XLVIII. Besides the game itself, the commercials from Fox we're replaced the commercials for Canadian audiences - which I'm fine giving the fact that Canadian ad dollars must stay in Canada. The problem is the majority of the ads being run is from Bell, CTV's owner. And most of them goes on repeat throughout. Thus those "ad dollars" that Bell was begging to stay here goes directly to Bell itself. (not related to the sim-sub, but in the middle of the trophy ceremony CTV thought it was a good idea to start their lead out program at that time and move the Super Bowl to TSN2, a channel which I didn't have. To this day I never saw the Seahawks hold that trophy.) CTV had officially made a loop hole with the sim-sub rule, earning double the amount of money to broadcast a American program that goes to their owner which will eventually transfer it to Bell Media, CTV's primary owner. Heck, I'm surprised that Rogers and Shaw haven't loop-holed the rule yet as it owns offenders City Television and Global, respectfully. EDIT: Speaking of another thing, sim-subs can be also done via station's master control, not just the satellite or cable providers specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1679 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Except for Bell-sourced feeds. They've owned TSN in some way since 2000; Bell-owned TV services, and those who get their feeds from Bell, have TSN simsubs. Apparently Rogers did something similar with the World Series last year, overriding Fox with Sportsnet (cue the angry crowd of people who actually liked the commentators on the MLB International feed better than Joe Buck). But at least TSN simsubs for ESPN on ABC actually, most of the time, remove the ABC bug and 4:3 ticker (the latter often getting overridden by TSN's version of the BottomLine, which is just a slightly downgraded version of the glossy 16:9 one ESPN just dumped), making things actually look more like ESPN proper. And actually, the "cover up the logo with an ugly opaque one" trend actually ended recently. CTV now just co-brands its feeds (which got a little awkward during Olympic season, given CTV lost them back to CBC). On a related note, I've seen (well, specifically on our feeds of WCVB and KIRO) feeds of stations actually have local commercials in some cases replaced by Canadian direct-response ads (yes, because WCVB definitely runs ads for Flex Seal during the 5 p.m. news), and they've often opted out the Noon news entirely with just an infomercial. It's ... odd. Is there any specific reason as to why WCVB is carried in Canada? Last time I checked Massachusetts doesn't border Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist 894 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Is there any specific reason as to why WCVB is carried in Canada? Last time I checked Massachusetts doesn't border Canada. WCVB along with five other Boston stations is carried only on Bell Satellite and Fiber Optic TV. I don't think there was an exact reason available but I'm guessing it's because Shaw Direct carries the nearest east coast American stations from Detroit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper550 268 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 WCVB along with five other Boston stations is carried only on Bell Satellite and Fiber Optic TV. I don't think there was an exact reason available but I'm guessing it's because Shaw Direct carries the nearest east coast American stations from Detroit? Atlantic Canadians often associate themselves with the culture of Northeast America (well, they follow the Red Sox and play Candlepin) In most markets, it depends on whether there is a good, major U.S. market of stations nearby. But there's oddities here and there: several providers in my part of the country use Spokane/Detroit (but mine uses Seattle/Boston), and Manitoba typically substitutes Detroit for Minnesota... with exceptions (WDAZ has historically been carried on cable in lieu of KSTP). But I've seen stranger mixes; a lot of them tend to favor WUHF as their Fox station rather than KMSP or WJBK, and Westman Cable in Manitoba does the same but also uses WXYZ instead of KSTP or WDAZ. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEOMatrix 1295 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Atlantic Canadians often associate themselves with the culture of Northeast America (well, they follow the Red Sox and play Candlepin) In most markets, it depends on whether there is a good, major U.S. market of stations nearby. But there's oddities here and there: several providers in my part of the country use Spokane/Detroit (but mine uses Seattle/Boston), and Manitoba typically substitutes Detroit for Minnesota... with exceptions (WDAZ has historically been carried on cable in lieu of KSTP). But I've seen stranger mixes; a lot of them tend to favor WUHF as their Fox station rather than KMSP or WJBK, and Westman Cable in Manitoba does the same but also uses WXYZ instead of KSTP or WDAZ. It's weird. Don't forget that in the Golden Horseshoe, they use either Buffalo or Rochester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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