A3N 1002 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 The thing is that station owners justified sharing helicopters not because of safety, but because of economics, even though they used the safety/accidents of helicopters as an excuse. Both are separate issues, but got lumped together once the recession hit and it was no longer justified to shell out the $1 million dollars plus it takes to operate a chopper. I am not against chopper sharing, in fact I think that it allows stations who can't afford their own chopper to get into it without the exorbitant costs and having a chopper for each station in the market is too much. However, in my market (San Diego), every single station in town shares the same chopper. The English and Spanish language stations share Chopper 8 (KFMB and operated by Metro Networks), although KFMB maintains editorial control of the video and the reporter in the chopper. The problem is that when breaking news happens, every single station will show the same live footage. For example, a month or so ago, there was a police chase/shootout and Chopper 8 was covering it. It was roughly around 6:30pm or so, and the same live feed was on KFMB, KNSD, KUSI and KSWB. It ended shortly before 7pm, all the other stations signed off, KGTV came on for a newscast with the same video. Point is, that not only were viewers seeing the same exact video, the stations had no editorial control of the shot and thus were at the mercy of what was coming in. There were times when the chopper reporter would lose the vehicle and the camera would be panning around trying to find the vehicle and then you had the anchors lost as to what was going on. That instance really showed the flaws of every station sharing the same chopper. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershock MN 169 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I was going to reference the Phoenix Crash. But, didn't want to misconstrued in the point I was making by referencing that tragedy...especially in light of what happened this week in Seattle. But, I agree with Raymie 100%. ns8401, Raymie covered a lot of it. But, I will add that with Helicopter ENG the pilot has a ridiculous number of duties on his/her plate. First, they operate under Visual Flight Rules. Meaning once they are cleared into an area by ATC it is the pilot's responsibility to maintain separation and declare their intentions. As already alluded they use an air-to-air frequency on one radio to broadcast their helicopter's position and their intentions. On top of this they will monitor ATC traffic via another radio, usually when in airspace near major airport (like Phoenix.) And, use an intercom to communicate with the photographer on board. But, wait I'm not done...Since most stations operate a two person crew the reporting duties too often fall to the pilot. The pilot uses yet another radio to report and communicate with the station. This is all on top of flying the Helicopter. It is insane and then when you pack a number of aircraft in a small space with that amount of duties human error is sadly bound to happen. That is unfortunately what happened in Phoenix. The NTSB concluded that the channel 3 and 15 helicopters collided because one or both pilots lost awareness of the other helicopter's position. Here is a of the events as they unfolded live WARNING: It is a bit tough to watch especially the KNXV portion as the pilot is still audible for a second or two when the video cuts out upon collision. And, via YouTube. A3N, Agreed that a lot of it was driven by dollars. However, if a side effect of that is increased safety due to less congested airspace then that is a good thing. So, even if it was an effort to save money during the recession continuing to "share" going forward provides a safer environment for those involved. Maybe it's just me but, I don't understand why it's a big deal to have 5 different aerial feeds vs. 1 or 2 "shared" feeds. The difference in video between them is negligible. They are all shooting the same thing from similar angles and it's all raw footage. The pilot knows as much as the anchors in studio due. So, even if the anchors are the ones reporting on what they see vs. someone in the chopper it will be the same thing. Until they get boots on the ground there to get info they are both working with what they see. So, what's the difference? Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2895 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I was going to reference the Phoenix Crash. But, didn't want to misconstrued in the point I was making by referencing that tragedy...especially in light of what happened this week in Seattle. But, I agree with Raymie 100%. ns8401, Raymie covered a lot of it. But, I will add that with Helicopter ENG the pilot has a ridiculous number of duties on his/her plate. First, they operate under Visual Flight Rules. Meaning once they are cleared into an area by ATC it is the pilot's responsibility to maintain separation and declare their intentions. As already alluded they use an air-to-air frequency on one radio to broadcast their helicopter's position and their intentions. On top of this they will monitor ATC traffic via another radio, usually when in airspace near major airport (like Phoenix.) And, use an intercom to communicate with the photographer on board. But, wait I'm not done...Since most stations operate a two person crew the reporting duties too often fall to the pilot. The pilot uses yet another radio to report and communicate with the station. This is all on top of flying the Helicopter. It is insane and then when you pack a number of aircraft in a small space with that amount of duties human error is sadly bound to happen. That is unfortunately what happened in Phoenix. The NTSB concluded that the channel 3 and 15 helicopters collided because one or both pilots lost awareness of the other helicopter's position. Here is a of the events as they unfolded live WARNING: It is a bit tough to watch especially the KNXV portion as the pilot is still audible for a second or two when the video cuts out upon collision. And, via YouTube. A3N, Agreed that a lot of it was driven by dollars. However, if a side effect of that is increased safety due to less congested airspace then that is a good thing. So, even if it was an effort to save money during the recession continuing to "share" going forward provides a safer environment for those involved. Maybe it's just me but, I don't understand why it's a big deal to have 5 different aerial feeds vs. 1 or 2 "shared" feeds. The difference in video between them is negligible. They are all shooting the same thing from similar angles and it's all raw footage. The pilot knows as much as the anchors in studio due. So, even if the anchors are the ones reporting on what they see vs. someone in the chopper it will be the same thing. Until they get boots on the ground there to get info they are both working with what they see. So, what's the difference? And in some cases being forced to the ground can be a great thing. KNXV during its mid-90s zenith won an AP Newscast of the Year award for that. An accident had occurred on the freeway. KNXV had to go to the ground and found out that people in the area had a hard time dialing 911 on their cell phones. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A3N 1002 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 A3N, Agreed that a lot of it was driven by dollars. However, if a side effect of that is increased safety due to less congested airspace then that is a good thing. So, even if it was an effort to save money during the recession continuing to "share" going forward provides a safer environment for those involved. Maybe it's just me but, I don't understand why it's a big deal to have 5 different aerial feeds vs. 1 or 2 "shared" feeds. The difference in video between them is negligible. They are all shooting the same thing from similar angles and it's all raw footage. The pilot knows as much as the anchors in studio due. So, even if the anchors are the ones reporting on what they see vs. someone in the chopper it will be the same thing. Until they get boots on the ground there to get info they are both working with what they see. So, what's the difference? Having 5 different choppers is excessive, I agree. That being said, KFMB uses a chopper reporter (who is contracted by Metro networks) and she is listening/reporting what the pilot and the PD helo pilots are saying over the radio. So in most cases of breaking news where the helicopter is over head, she relays the info to the viewers sometimes before the other stations even pick up the feed. Either way, I don't expect every station to get a helicopter (back) because it is very expensive, the only station I could maybe see getting their chopper back down the road is KNSD. But that is something for later. One thing that Thundershock MN brought up is the fact that many of these helicopter pilots are doing several tasks at the same time. That should be banned. The pilot should not do anything else but fly the aircraft, and everything else needs to be delegated to a reporter/photographer. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4374 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The only facilities being "swapped" in HBG are the transmitter locations. WHTM and Sinclair and current staff will be in Whtm current location and Whp and new owner will be in bldg where 21 is housed currently with their staff moving from Sinclair to the new owner. Pretty clearly spelled out this way in the amended filing. So essentially, this is similar to the transmitter/license swap between WCIX/WFOR and WTVJ in 1995. Only real difference is the existence of PSIP. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershock MN 169 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Having 5 different choppers is excessive, I agree. That being said, KFMB uses a chopper reporter (who is contracted by Metro networks) and she is listening/reporting what the pilot and the PD helo pilots are saying over the radio. So in most cases of breaking news where the helicopter is over head, she relays the info to the viewers sometimes before the other stations even pick up the feed. Either way, I don't expect every station to get a helicopter (back) because it is very expensive, the only station I could maybe see getting their chopper back down the road is KNSD. But that is something for later. One thing that Thundershock MN brought up is the fact that many of these helicopter pilots are doing several tasks at the same time. That should be banned. The pilot should not do anything else but fly the aircraft, and everything else needs to be delegated to a reporter/photographer. Agreed. It happens though. In fact of the 5 choppers in the air at the time of that accident 4 of them operated with a pilot/reporter & photographer team. Post accident HAI updated the ENG aviation safety manual to include: "The pilot’s primary responsibility is to fly the aircraft safely. ALL other duties will be secondary while flying. Safety, not news, is the primary consideration. Pilot-reporters shall decline station requests for live reports when ATC obligations and safe aircraft operation preclude safely narrating a report personally. Scene work can increase the possibility of target fixation. All pilots should establish and maintain cockpit routines that reduce the likelihood of target fixation." So, some steps were taken to correct that. So essentially, this is similar to the transmitter/license swap between WCIX/WFOR and WTVJ in 1995. Only real difference is the existence of PSIP. It's more like KFVE/KGMB. Sinclair actually wants to keep their current transmitter/facilities in Harrisburg. As you know facilities are tied to the license. So, they are creating the allusion of only "swapping" facilities by actually swapping everything else (building, programming, calls. etc.) around it. The end result is you end up with WHTM on RF-21 from facility id #72313 under Sinclair ownership. And, a new owner with WHP on RF-10 from facility ID #72326. I am a little curious how they intend to swap virtual channels, though. As virtual channel numbers are tied to the license and have specific rules surrounding them. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanewsguy 511 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Helicopter shares mean clearer airspace. We all know what damage that can cause. I support helicopter shares in most cases because they can actually enhance stations' ability to report and also make them less prone to risky accidents like the Phoenix crash of 2007. That happened because five stations had five choppers. Now five stations have two choppers. You keep forgetting Bruce Haffner's chopper so actually five stations three choppers. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hathawaynson2 39 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You keep forgetting Bruce Haffner's chopper so actually five stations three choppers. I thought this thread of tvnewstalk is supposed to be about Sinclair and its mischevious deals and venting about how Sinclair and its side-car issues. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 941 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 We got a little distracted, there are 67 other pages, this is one long thread. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2895 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You keep forgetting Bruce Haffner's chopper so actually five stations three choppers. Yeah, but 3 doesn't use him all day. It's more like 2 1/2. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hathawaynson2 39 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 We got a little distracted, there are 67 other pages, this is one long thread. I understand that everyone wants to talk about newschoppers. I just was noticing the Sinclair...Again board lighting up. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 941 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I understand that everyone wants to talk about newschoppers. I just was noticing the Sinclair...Again board lighting up. I was just noting the 67 pages, I don't really think I've seen a thread this long before. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-100855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2895 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 More mail. This time from a new law office and the lovely counsel to Howard Stirk Holdings, LLC, Colby M. May, Esq., P.C. (Here's the letter.) "As a result, HSH believes that if it is able to obtain assurance from the Commission that [sinclair Television Group] will be granted such a waiver, and that the proposed transactions will satisfy the processing guidelines found in the March 12, 2014 Public Notice, STG will be willing" to try and dump almost all the stuff they wanted to sell off on Howard Stirk Holdings. Sinclair wants to facilitate the buying of the WLYH license from Nexstar on behalf of HSH, and it also will still sell off WHP (using WHTM's transmitter) to an unrelated third party. Most of the piece is devoted to making the case for Armstrong Williams and Howard Stirk Holdings. It emphasizes his control of the stations, production of public affairs programs on WEYI and WMMP (which morphs into WMMB). Somehow they said to send it by email only BUT also decided to physically mail it to me. Someone thought their Google-fu was strong, as it referred to something online I did five years ago (related to television) in the address label. An attached slide presentation also reveals planned HSH town hall meetings and tapings: May 13, 2014: "Stand Your Ground: Minority Youth and Violence" from Horry-Georgetown Technical College in Myrtle Beach Fall: Congressional Black Caucus prime time special with Congressman Gregory Meeks December 28, 2014: A Year in Review January 11, 2014: Primetime special "Entrepreneurship: The Engine of Our US Economy" It also talks about things that have happened, including a March 28 town hall held at Horry-Georgetown moderated by Williams. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanewsguy 511 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 More mail. This time from a new law office and the lovely counsel to Howard Stirk Holdings, LLC, Colby M. May, Esq., P.C. (Here's the letter.) "As a result, HSH believes that if it is able to obtain assurance from the Commission that [sinclair Television Group] will be granted such a waiver, and that the proposed transactions will satisfy the processing guidelines found in the March 12, 2014 Public Notice, STG will be willing" to try and dump almost all the stuff they wanted to sell off on Howard Stirk Holdings. Sinclair wants to facilitate the buying of the WLYH license from Nexstar on behalf of HSH, and it also will still sell off WHP (using WHTM's transmitter) to an unrelated third party. Most of the piece is devoted to making the case for Armstrong Williams and Howard Stirk Holdings. It emphasizes his control of the stations, production of public affairs programs on WEYI and WMMP (which morphs into WMMB). Somehow they said to send it by email only BUT also decided to physically mail it to me. Someone thought their Google-fu was strong, as it referred to something online I did five years ago (related to television) in the address label. An attached slide presentation also reveals planned HSH town hall meetings and tapings: May 13, 2014: "Stand Your Ground: Minority Youth and Violence" from Horry-Georgetown Technical College in Myrtle Beach Fall: Congressional Black Caucus prime time special with Congressman Gregory Meeks December 28, 2014: A Year in Review January 11, 2014: Primetime special "Entrepreneurship: The Engine of Our US Economy" It also talks about things that have happened, including a March 28 town hall held at Horry-Georgetown moderated by Williams. I don't buy HSH's claim that they are separate from Sinclair for a second. I still think Sinclair is calling the shots and they are just telling Williams, "this is what you need to do to make HSH look like it's a separate entity from us". Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVIntheDesert 183 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 More mail. This time from a new law office and the lovely counsel to Howard Stirk Holdings, LLC, Colby M. May, Esq., P.C. (Here's the letter.) "As a result, HSH believes that if it is able to obtain assurance from the Commission that [sinclair Television Group] will be granted such a waiver, and that the proposed transactions will satisfy the processing guidelines found in the March 12, 2014 Public Notice, STG will be willing" to try and dump almost all the stuff they wanted to sell off on Howard Stirk Holdings. Sinclair wants to facilitate the buying of the WLYH license from Nexstar on behalf of HSH, and it also will still sell off WHP (using WHTM's transmitter) to an unrelated third party. Most of the piece is devoted to making the case for Armstrong Williams and Howard Stirk Holdings. It emphasizes his control of the stations, production of public affairs programs on WEYI and WMMP (which morphs into WMMB). Somehow they said to send it by email only BUT also decided to physically mail it to me. Someone thought their Google-fu was strong, as it referred to something online I did five years ago (related to television) in the address label. An attached slide presentation also reveals planned HSH town hall meetings and tapings: May 13, 2014: "Stand Your Ground: Minority Youth and Violence" from Horry-Georgetown Technical College in Myrtle Beach Fall: Congressional Black Caucus prime time special with Congressman Gregory Meeks December 28, 2014: A Year in Review January 11, 2014: Primetime special "Entrepreneurship: The Engine of Our US Economy" It also talks about things that have happened, including a March 28 town hall held at Horry-Georgetown moderated by Williams. Colby May knows a lot about trying to skirt ownership rules. He's the longtime FCC counsel for Trinity Broadcasting Network. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry 727 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Colby May knows a lot about trying to skirt ownership rules. He's the longtime FCC counsel for Trinity Broadcasting Network. The gay guy Rev. Crouch died just recently. Something about California and religion just don't seem to go together ... Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hathawaynson2 39 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The gay guy Rev. Crouch died just recently. Something about California and religion just don't seem to go together ... Rev.Crouch died of chronic heart problems for decades and had an pacemaker installed in 2012 according to TBN. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVIntheDesert 183 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The gay guy Rev. Crouch died just recently. Something about California and religion just don't seem to go together ... I was talking about TBN's use of shells (remember National Minority TV or All-American Network?) in the '90s so they could own more stations than they were allowed to back then. It's no surprise Armstrong Williams is using May as his FCC counsel now. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 738 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I just happened to catch Ring of Fire on KDNL over the weekend. Has anyone watched it before? It's pretty (unintentionally) funny for a low-budget production. Heck, it's not even in HD. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanewsguy 511 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I just happened to catch Ring of Fire on KDNL over the weekend. Has anyone watched it before? It's pretty (unintentionally) funny for a low-budget production. Heck, it's not even in HD. You mean Ring of Honor? I watch that if I want a good laugh. Wrestling doesn't get more fake (or low-budget) than that. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 738 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You mean Ring of Honor? I watch that if I want a good laugh. Wrestling doesn't get more fake (or low-budget) than that. That's what I meant. And you're right, it's one of those things that's so bad that it's funny. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhratbrat 437 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As a wrestling company quality wise they are actually asomewhat of a niche product. Not wwe level but a lot of people do watch it. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4374 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I just happened to catch Ring of Fire on KDNL over the weekend. Has anyone watched it before? It's pretty (unintentionally) funny for a low-budget production. Heck, it's not even in HD. The first thing I thought of when hearing "ring of fire" is hemorrhoids. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTVNews 1377 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Any word on when KDNL will relaunch their newscasts? Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusNewsFan 217 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As a wrestling company quality wise they are actually asomewhat of a niche product. Not wwe level but a lot of people do watch it. Kind of off topic, but a lot of guys that were in Ring of Honor has end up in the WWE recently. Link to comment https://localnewstalk.net/topic/12568-sinclairagain/page/54/#findComment-102589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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