DirtyHarry 719 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 On the noon news today one of the graphics showed a radar sweep emanating from Northwest Licking County. Let's forget for a minute how most of the weather comes into Columbus from the West and how that is a bad place to put a radar (since Licking County is to the East), but did WSYX install a radar? Or are they linking into somebody else's radar? Or are they just linking into somebody's little Weather Underground weather station kit? Or is that just a funky little graphic that's supposed to trick people into thinking they have a radar? (It was part of a graphic that featured a five or six radar sweep from various points in and around the state.) Why would anybody bother with a Doppler radar at the station level anymore? I would think the NWS radar is more powerful than anything a TV station can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1679 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Why would anybody bother with a Doppler radar at the station level anymore? I would think the NWS radar is more powerful than anything a TV station can afford. The big reason that stations are buying or operating radars are that the data is instantaneous- where's there's an average delay of around five minutes for the NWS. Additionally some of the radars that NBC has been installing are more powerful than the NWS and apparently can see further and more clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memnews1 25 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Or are they just linking into somebody's little Weather Underground weather station kit? Sorry, this made me laugh, lol. They certainly could have gotten their own personal radar and are just using the surrounding NWS radars for "backup". One HUGE selling point for a station to get a radar is that they have full control. For instance, if there is just one tornadic storm to the southwest and nothing else going on, they can stop the radar from rotating and keep it pointing in that direction for nearly instantaneous updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry 719 Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 The big reason that stations are buying or operating radars are that the data is instantaneous- where's there's an average delay of around five minutes for the NWS. Additionally some of the radars that NBC has been installing are more powerful than the NWS and apparently can see further and more clearly. I thought the delays weren't an issue anymore; I thought it was instantaneous these days. The bolded section is something new I learned today; I didn't realize that TV station radars had gotten so good. Sorry, this made me laugh, lol. Well, that was the idea! Although I was more proud of the smartarse comment that followed about tricking people into thinking they have a radar. They certainly could have gotten their own personal radar and are just using the surrounding NWS radars for "backup". One HUGE selling point for a station to get a radar is that they have full control. For instance, if there is just one tornadic storm to the southwest and nothing else going on, they can stop the radar from rotating and keep it pointing in that direction for nearly instantaneous updates. I knew that, I just didn't realize they were as good or better than the NWS radar. I didn't think the stuff you buy at station level would be as advanced or as sensitive. But again, it still makes no sense to locate a radar to the east unless it has to do with locating at a higher elevation (I think the ground is higher there). WBNS and WCMH (when they were an NBC O&O) had their radars to the West of Columbus. But Sinclair buying an in-house radar? OMG! That's what surprised me, though I am doubtful because of where the center of the radar sweep was located on the graphic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaking News 805 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I don't think they have their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColDayNews 437 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 WBNS actually still has their own radar at Bolton Field in Grove City. It was originally part of the Dual Doppler 10 radar network, the other site being at their Twin Rivers Drive studio. I thought the delays weren't an issue anymore; I thought it was instantaneous these days. The bolded section is something new I learned today; I didn't realize that TV station radars had gotten so good. Well, that was the idea! Although I was more proud of the smartarse comment that followed about tricking people into thinking they have a radar. I knew that, I just didn't realize they were as good or better than the NWS radar. I didn't think the stuff you buy at station level would be as advanced or as sensitive. But again, it still makes no sense to locate a radar to the east unless it has to do with locating at a higher elevation (I think the ground is higher there). WBNS and WCMH (when they were an NBC O&O) had their radars to the West of Columbus. But Sinclair buying an in-house radar? OMG! That's what surprised me, though I am doubtful because of where the center of the radar sweep was located on the graphic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhmediaguy 3 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The FAA does have a terminal doppler radar to the east of Columbus. This may be what they are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncsuwxman 6 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The FAA does have a terminal doppler radar to the east of Columbus. This may be what they are showing. Precisely. The CMH terminal doppler is located in western Licking County. (History lesson: TDWRs were installed near major airports due to plane crashes that resulted from wind shear. More details.) It seems weather software vendors allowed the incorporation of this data only in the last several years. The data is higher resolution than NWS WSR-88D and updates at 1 minute frequency, but there is comparatively reduced range and often data quality issues. Since the NWS radar in Wilmington's lowest scan is at least 5,000 ft above the ground in the Columbus metro, the TDWR gives much better resolution of quick, small "spin-up" tornadoes. So the TDWR benefits NWS meteorologists from a warning perspective, and the broadcast mets in that they can actually track the tornado in wall-to-wall coverage instead of having to guess what the NWS is looking at. The big reason that stations are buying or operating radars are that the data is instantaneous- where's there's an average delay of around five minutes for the NWS. Additionally some of the radars that NBC has been installing are more powerful than the NWS and apparently can see further and more clearly. The "delay" is in receiving the lowest scan... not in a data transmission sense. Radar data is always being received from NWS radar. It's just completing a "volumetric" scan...starting at 0.5° above ground, then 0.9°, 1.2°, and so forth. The upper level data is needed for storm interrogation and warning purposes, but is little value to show on TV. It takes 4-6 minutes to complete the entire volume. Within the past year, "MESO-SAILS" has been implemented on NWS radars, allowing a low-level scan to be inserted as many as 3 times within a volume (similar to how TDWR works). This would trim the "update" time of the lowest scan to as little as 75 seconds, but it's entirely at the discretion of the NWS how to use this feature to support their storm interrogation purposes. Radar technology is usually a balancing act...if you increase one thing, you lose something in another area. Without seeing the specs, just because a TV station boasts their radar is "more ____" than other radars, it could very well be the radar data suffers in another area that wouldn't be apparent to a viewer. A lot of times it's just a marketing ploy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1679 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The "delay" is in receiving the lowest scan... not in a data transmission sense. Radar data is always being received from NWS radar. It's just completing a "volumetric" scan...starting at 0.5° above ground, then 0.9°, 1.2°, and so forth. The upper level data is needed for storm interrogation and warning purposes, but is little value to show on TV. It takes 4-6 minutes to complete the entire volume. Within the past year, "MESO-SAILS" has been implemented on NWS radars, allowing a low-level scan to be inserted as many as 3 times within a volume (similar to how TDWR works). This would trim the "update" time of the lowest scan to as little as 75 seconds, but it's entirely at the discretion of the NWS how to use this feature to support their storm interrogation purposes. On a meteorology board I read that most stations set their radar at 0.6° and forget about ever changing it. Radar technology is usually a balancing act...if you increase one thing, you lose something in another area. Without seeing the specs, just because a TV station boasts their radar is "more ____" than other radars, it could very well be the radar data suffers in another area that wouldn't be apparent to a viewer. A lot of times it's just a marketing ploy. The so called Doppler dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4225 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 WEWS has a network of five doppler radars (aka the "Power of 5"). It could be that which WSYX is plugged into, as I was under the impression one of those five radars was near Columbus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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