Does station coverage from an adjacent market not count because it's not in that market?

[Rusty Muck 4256]

Channel 23 in Akron - initially WAKR-TV - struggled mightily when they were an ABC affiliate, operating in the shadows of WEWS Channel 5. Often the ratings for their local newscasts were poor in Akron proper, plus all the Cleveland stations locked up the top syndicated programming.

 

WAKR-TV attained their ABC affiliation in the late 1950s, when ABC was hurting for affiliates (and WEWS frequently preempted ABC programming for local offerings). Neither station complained at the time, but as the 60s and 70s wore on, WEWS wanted the exclusive affiliation and would lobby ABC relentlessly.

 

Until the Berk family (Group One Broadcasting) sold off their radio assets to DKM Broadcasting in 1986, it was the revenue from 1590 WAKR that kept Channel 23 afloat. Deprived of that, the renamed WAKC began to suffer, relying on infomercials, The 700 Club and third-hand reruns for non-network programming. The 11pm newscast would be recorded a few hours earlier in the evening. Finally the Berks gave up and sold WAKC to ValueVision in 1993, but ValueVision kept everything as-is, even expanding the news department.

 

Paxson bought WAKC in 1996, fired the entire news department, cancelled all local programming and terminated the ABC affiliation at the end of the year. It became an all-informercial channel, then was rebranded WVPX, and then took up Pax/i/ION (aka 20 straight hours of Criminal Minds, Law and Order:SVU or Blue Bloods reruns).

 

Master control is IIRC still run out of WKYC, a relic from a long-ended LMA that for a time had repurposed WKYC newscasts on channel 23 with an Akron orientation, later moved to cable-only.

 

Why did channel 23 fail? Simple geography. Akron is only about 40 miles from Cleveland. If it was about another 30 miles away, a case could be made that channel 23 could have survived and thrived as a standalone not unlike WLIO or WHIZ. But it was not the case, unfortunately.

[nomadcowatbk 144]

Next door in Lawrence County, PA, Comcast has dropped the Youngstown locals into the 100s even though they got decent ratings in New Castle. In fact, due to Western PA's hilly terrain, New Castle was better off getting Youngstown locals (especially WYTV vs WTAE) than getting Pittsburgh locals. The Achilles heel has always been pay-TV and the NFL due to WFMJ (and later, WKBN, but only sometimes) being forced to carry the Browns when New Castleans wanted to watch the Steelers and was forced to watch WPXI (or KDKA, or WPGH).

 

a similar situation in Ashland WI which is in the Duluth market where the Fox station prefers Vikings over Packers, Fox doesn't allow out of market stations on pay TV providers

[nomadcowatbk 144]

Kansas City is also one of those large markets that overlaps others, specifically Topeka and St. Joseph. Granted, St. Joe is pretty much THE smallest market in the entire country and has their own ABC and Fox affiliates, but you can still easily get the KC stations (sans WDAF since they're not carried at all).

 

It's weirder for KC and Topeka because KC overlaps like half of Topeka's market or something. For one example, Douglas County, KS technically isn't in KC's DMA, yet all of the KC stations cover it. As such, you get both NBC and CBS affiliates from KC and Topeka, but only the KC Fox and ABC affiliates. Pretty certain it's similar with most of northeastern Kansas. If one looks at the severe weather tickers, they'll see that the maps contain the entire KC and most of Topeka market. It's been my observations that most stations only have their exact DMA boundaries in their weather crawls.

 

I think Douglass County KS is actually in the KC DMA, Sunflower Cable in Lawrence carries all KC stations but only CBS and NBC from Topeka, KNPN forced WDAF off cable in St. Joseph but that can still be picked up with a good antenna, KMBC and KQTV coexist on cable there but the dishes only carry KQTV

[The Frog 396]

During the analog days, KXII was receivable in northern parts of the DFW metroplex. It was convenient when they were playing a different game than KTVT, if you were willing to deal with the layers of snow and static. One of the little joys that went away with digital.

[mardek1995 200]

During the analog days, KXII was receivable in northern parts of the DFW metroplex. It was convenient when they were playing a different game than KTVT, if you were willing to deal with the layers of snow and static. One of the little joys that went away with digital.

And aren't the Waco stations still receivable in the southern parts of the metroplex?

[compubit 670]

 

I believe Nielsen only rates stations that are in your DMA. I'm not sure how they handle areas or counties that are within two DMAs (like Baltimore & Washington stations in Anne Arundel County, Md) or areas where there are no full power stations in a market where a distant station is piped in (like in the Eastern Shore of Maryland - part of Salisbury DMA which has a low power NBC that barely covers the city it's licensed too and WBAL and WRC are piped in).

 

Each area is in one and only one DMA (typically by county, but some counties are split - especially out west). Anne Arundel County is in the Baltimore DMA, but the DC stations are significantly viewed. I'm in Arlington and can get both DC and Baltimore (except WUTB/24) locals. I believe that Nielsen tracks whatever is watched - so we're I to become a "Nielsen Family" and watch WJZ's news, it would be tracked, but not sure how it is counted, since i'm technically out of market. Same for underserved areas - I'm sure that WBAL and WRC get some ratings in the eastern shore, but no idea how it is counted.

 

As for significantly viewers stations, if a station is defined as significantly viewed historically (there's a list), the distant stations can be on cable (even Fox), but the local stations can black out duplicated programming, and can negotiate the distant station off or to a different tier (i.e., channel 99 or 100+), and aren't usually in HD...

 

Clear as mud!

 

J

[TriangleTriadMediaNews 267]

WTVR and WRLH are included with the regular locals in both SD and HD. We even get a duplicate feed of the Comet subchannel for whatever reason (WJLA's and WRLH's), along with duplicates of ThisTV, but Richmond's subchannel also broadcasts MNTV.

[mvcg66b3r 97]

WTVR and WRLH are included with the regular locals in both SD and HD. We even get a duplicate feed of the Comet subchannel for whatever reason (WJLA's and WRLH's), along with duplicates of ThisTV, but Richmond's subchannel also broadcasts MNTV.

 

What city and what system?

[tw-804 190]

What city and what system?

Fredericksburg, VA.

[mvcg66b3r 97]

Fredericksburg, VA.

Comcast or Cox?

[TriangleTriadMediaNews 267]

Comcast or Cox?

 

Fios actually.

[djlynch 54]

During the analog days, KXII was receivable in northern parts of the DFW metroplex. It was convenient when they were playing a different game than KTVT, if you were willing to deal with the layers of snow and static. One of the little joys that went away with digital.

 

Digital can surprise you from time to time, too. If the weather conditions are right, I can pick up KBTX at my house in Austin (~110 miles away) with just a cheapo antenna. Back in the analog days, you could get enough of a picture from KMOL (now WOAI) and KENS in south Austin to know what was going on, but the audio signal had too much static to be usable.

[tyrannical bastard 3496]

Channel 23 in Akron - initially WAKR-TV - struggled mightily when they were an ABC affiliate, operating in the shadows of WEWS Channel 5. Often the ratings for their local newscasts were poor in Akron proper, plus all the Cleveland stations locked up the top syndicated programming.

 

WAKR-TV attained their ABC affiliation in the late 1950s, when ABC was hurting for affiliates (and WEWS frequently preempted ABC programming for local offerings). Neither station complained at the time, but as the 60s and 70s wore on, WEWS wanted the exclusive affiliation and would lobby ABC relentlessly.

 

Until the Berk family (Group One Broadcasting) sold off their radio assets to DKM Broadcasting in 1986, it was the revenue from 1590 WAKR that kept Channel 23 afloat. Deprived of that, the renamed WAKC began to suffer, relying on infomercials, The 700 Club and third-hand reruns for non-network programming. The 11pm newscast would be recorded a few hours earlier in the evening. Finally the Berks gave up and sold WAKC to ValueVision in 1993, but ValueVision kept everything as-is, even expanding the news department.

 

Paxson bought WAKC in 1996, fired the entire news department, cancelled all local programming and terminated the ABC affiliation at the end of the year. It became an all-informercial channel, then was rebranded WVPX, and then took up Pax/i/ION (aka 20 straight hours of Criminal Minds, Law and Order:SVU or Blue Bloods reruns).

 

Master control is IIRC still run out of WKYC, a relic from a long-ended LMA that for a time had repurposed WKYC newscasts on channel 23 with an Akron orientation, later moved to cable-only.

 

Why did channel 23 fail? Simple geography. Akron is only about 40 miles from Cleveland. If it was about another 30 miles away, a case could be made that channel 23 could have survived and thrived as a standalone not unlike WLIO or WHIZ. But it was not the case, unfortunately.

 

This whole part of the country was a cluster in the infancy of television...

 

Cleveland was fortunate enough to gain 3 VHF licences and all were on the air by 1949. WEWS began in 1947 as the first station in Ohio on channel 5. Akron wanted a station on Channel 11 but this never happened because of the "freeze" and after some re-alignment, channel 11 went to Pittsburgh. WNBK (now WKYC) moved from 4 to 3, and WXEL (now WJW) moved from 9 to 8.

 

WDTV (now KDKA) was the ONLY station on the air in Pittsburgh and was one of the few DuMont powerhouses. It was also on Channel 3. After the freeze, they moved to channel 2 and as Westinghouse was wanting a station there, WQED signed on as one of the first non-commercial stations in the country...on channel 13. Still, they were woefully undeserved as it took until 1955 for WIIC (now WPXI) to sign on channel 11, and until 1958 for WTAE to sign on channel 4.

 

WTRF and WSTV (now WTOV) also signed on in 1953, WTRF on channel 7, and WSTV on the newly vacated channel 9. Despite their close proximity to Pittsburgh, both are still around today serving the Wheeling-Stubenville area.

 

Erie sucked up the channel 12 allocation in 1949 for WICU, before the freeze.

 

That left channels 6 and 10, both too close to be used in Northeast Ohio, since both had established themselves in both Columbus and Johnstown/Altoona.

 

Youngstown opted to remain a "UHF island" and remained so. WKST (now WYTV) was signed on in New Castle, PA, and was probably harmed by WAKC as well in their western fringes as it was the "fourth place station" against both WFMJ and WKBN in later years. WKST even pre-dated WTAE as an ABC affiliate for Pittsburgh and it took until 1964 for the license to be moved to Youngstown.

 

Back to Akron...

WAKR was forced to sign on Channel 49 and later moved to channel 23. The channel 49 allocation resurfaced in 1975 as WEAO, a satellite of WNEO, which was on WKST's old allocation of channel 45, which signed on in 1973 by a consortium of local universities (Kent State, Univ. of Akron & Youngstown State) as PBS stations.

 

Akron was the most populous city outside of Cleveland, but it's proximity is what did it in. Had the WAKR station been licensed to Canton or somewhere south, it could have broken Canton away into a smaller market or a compliment to Wheeling-Steubenville. Also, the VHF allocations kept Wheeling-Steubenville viable as a market.

 

The same could be said for Dayton, in a similar boat being close to both Columbus and Cincinnati. They were fortunate enough to have COX sign on WHIO and for Crosley to set up shop on channel 5 (later channel 2 after parent station WLWT moved from 4 to 5 and WLW-C in Columbus moved from 3 to 4.) Strong ownership there made it viable (as well as Crosley's WLW network having stations in ALL 3 cities at the time...)

 

At least the "freeze" allowed markets to re-align channels as you can see above. These changes spurred additional changes in a domino-effect way in adjacent markets. Of course, it still cost Akron a VHF allocation.

[cg41386 131]

I have Green Bay station access in my market, but Nielsen only counts ratings for my area for Milwaukee stations. This is why Fox has become very strict about outskirt markets and strictly allows only one affiliate to be carried on paid providers; our area lost Green Bay's Fox affiliate on cable due to that.

 

I have seen WNYW and WTXF carried together on two different cable providers, unless I am misunderstanding what you mean here.

[cg41386 131]

a similar situation in Ashland WI which is in the Duluth market where the Fox station prefers Vikings over Packers, Fox doesn't allow out of market stations on pay TV providers

 

See above- I have seen WTXF carried on cable in Ocean County, NJ and WNYW carried in Allentown, PA. Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by pay TV providers.

[mrschimpf 2075]

I have seen WNYW and WTXF carried together on two different cable providers, unless I am misunderstanding what you mean here.

 

That's probably an exception since FTS owns both stations and one is probably in SD. WLUK's GM at the time posted a great blog explaining everything in-depth involving why we lost WLUK in our market since WITI is the 'official' affiliate for my county.

[NEOMatrix 1295]

If Fox is so adament about ending adjacent station carriage, why is WJW STILL carried in Trumbull County when the Youngstown DMA has WYFX?

[TriangleTriadMediaNews 267]

To add about having WTTG and WRLH, nothing is blacked out at all, even if they happen to be carrying separate football games on Sunday in the event the Redskins play Thurs/Sun/Mon night.

[bixpchiphead 105]

If Fox is so adament about ending adjacent station carriage, why is WJW STILL carried in Trumbull County when the Youngstown DMA has WYFX?

 

Because 21st Century Fox has not owned WJW for a few years, LocalTV/Tribune has...

[NEOMatrix 1295]

Because 21st Century Fox has not owned WJW for a few years, LocalTV/Tribune has...

I know that LocalTV/Tribune own WJW. They also own WITI but Fox still forced cable providers in Sheboygan to stop Sinclair's WLUK to protect WITI's ratings. I'm just wondering why Fox hasn't told WJW to go bye-bye off TWC Trumbull County on Media General's behalf.

[bixpchiphead 105]

I know that LocalTV/Tribune own WJW. They also own WITI but Fox still forced cable providers in Sheboygan to stop Sinclair's WLUK to protect WITI's ratings. I'm just wondering why Fox hasn't told WJW to go bye-bye off TWC Trumbull County on Media General's behalf.

 

Just a guess on my part, Fox has the NFC package=Packers=Protect MKE, whereas The Browns and Stillers are AFC=Fox'll take the extra eyeballs in Trumbull County....

[Rusty Muck 4256]

I know that LocalTV/Tribune own WJW. They also own WITI but Fox still forced cable providers in Sheboygan to stop Sinclair's WLUK to protect WITI's ratings. I'm just wondering why Fox hasn't told WJW to go bye-bye off TWC Trumbull County on Media General's behalf.

S!nclair has also been very protective about adjacent market cable coverage throughout the country. That situation with WLUK and WITI may have been the result of a mutual agreement between Tribune and S!nclair.

 

I'm pretty sure that if anyone at WKBN/WYFX was going to complain about WJW's presence on Youngstown cable, it would have been long ago. Remember that the current (for now) MediaGeneral is the continuation of LIN Media, so they've owned WKBN/WYFX for awhile. Maybe that will change when Nexstar takes over... who knows.

[NEOMatrix 1295]

True. It's the same WKBN that should've had WOIO dropped off Time Warner Youngstown the minute 19 shacked up with the Eye.

[Payton39 25]

I live in San Diego. In my childhood, I got lots of la stations on cable. 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 at various times, IIRC. San Diego is pretty big, but LA is a global city. So it's a lot of fun to watch from that market. However, I don't know much about LA. I have no clue about the 57 or the 405. I know the 52 and the 805 freeways.

 

In short, there is no sub for local news, but adjacent news can be fun if you know your own area but don't necessarily know theirs.

[Eat News 4738]

I live in San Diego. In my childhood, I got lots of la stations on cable. 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 at various times, IIRC. San Diego is pretty big, but LA is a global city. So it's a lot of fun to watch from that market. However, I don't know much about LA. I have no clue about the 57 or the 405. I know the 52 and the 805 freeways.

 

In short, there is no sub for local news, but adjacent news can be fun if you know your own area but don't necessarily know theirs.

 

You would get a kick out of watching the El Centro /Yuma stations.