Boston TV crisis: WHDH and WNEU

[bostonmediaguy 123]

No. We don't know that.

 

Here are the facts:

• Boston (and the northeast) has the highest cable penetration in the country.
  
• WNEU is carried by most providers in the Boston DMA. The others can certainly add it by January.
  
• The "NBC Boston" news department is NECN (New England Cable News). They aren't shutting down.
  

 

NBC has certainly thought this through. They get an O&O (and retain all of that revenue) with minimal investment. Whether it's carried on a broadcast signal available in most of the marketplace or not is really not make-or-break. Sorry.

[Eat News 4745]

I guess Bostonian s will have to learn how to count past number 12 if they want NBC.

 

There is a list of numbers on google.

Hint

60 is past 58 and 59...but before 61.

[Mark Adams 2]

Only if they want to watch it OTA. WNEU is in various places on various cable systems, so they may have to count up to 900.

[Rusty Muck 4378]

Only if they want to watch it OTA. WNEU is in various places on various cable systems, so they may have to count up to 900.

"NBC 960 Boston"

[Rusty Muck 4378]

NBC has certainly thought this through. They get an O&O (and retain all of that revenue) with minimal investment. Whether it's carried on a broadcast signal available in most of the marketplace or not is really not make-or-break. Sorry.

Then they should be upfront and tell Bostonians that they will be on WNEU 60, and if you're a cord-cutter or a cord-neverer, you'll never see NBC shows on OTA again unless you pay them for the privilege to do so.

 

I strongly disagree. ANY investment (no matter how small) is too much for a station that will be a disaster from day one. Only thing that's missing is an over-under on when WNEU cancels the NECN newscasts on account of no one watching. And no one will watch.

 

Poorly planned, poorly executed. If NBC was doing their homework on this, they would flunk the class.

[DirtyHarry 727]

Then they should be upfront and tell Bostonians that they will be on WNEU 60, and if you're a cord-cutter or a cord-neverer, you'll never see NBC again unless you pay them for the privilege to do so.

 

I strongly disagree. ANY investment (no matter how small) is too much for a station that will be a disaster from day one. Only thing that's missing is an over-under on when WNEU cancels their newscasts on account of no one watching.

 

1. Disagree. They have history, both in San Jose and in Miami. They ran the Miami station from the old WCIX tower in Homestead, and I think they had three low power translators in Broward and Northern Dade. And those old school analog translators sucked! As good as the new digital translators are, they can do that in Boston (temporarily) without skipping a beat.

 

And if you want to be anal about channel numbers, purchase WHDT-LD (6.1 DW) and then you can be NBC 6.

 

2. They held on to WJAR for 10 years. Do you think they didn't do any engineering studies to see if they couldn't move it to Boston? I'm sure they did and either the band was too crowded or the loss of a dominant station in Providence couldn't be justified.

[compubit 673]

60 is past 58 and 59...but before 61.

 

1. Disagree. They have history, both in San Jose and in Miami. They ran the Miami station from the old WCIX tower in Homestead, and I think they had three low power translators in Broward and Northern Dade. And those old school analog translators sucked! As good as the new digital translators are, they can do that in Boston (temporarily) without skipping a beat.

 

They could even redo a promo WTVJ used back when NBC switched from WSVN/7 to WTVJ/4: Past the video games on 3 and before the goofy station on 5. *

 

Past the crazy Spanish programs on 58, but before the goofy "Pay to Pray" stuff on 62...

 

* Irony was "the goofy station on 5" was WPTV, NBC in West Palm Beach, which had OTA coverage in the north half of the Miami market, including at my parents place just north of downtown. Of course, WPTV ran it's own promos: "We're not about to change!" (WPEC went from ABC to CBS, WTVX from CBS to Ind., and WPBT signed on as ABC.)

[Rusty Muck 4378]

1. Disagree. They have history, both in San Jose and in Miami. They ran the Miami station from the old WCIX tower in Homestead, and I think they had three low power translators in Broward and Northern Dade. And those old school analog translators sucked! As good as the new digital translators are, they can do that in Boston (temporarily) without skipping a beat.

 

WTVJ suffered signal-wise post-1995 channel 6 move until the DTV conversion (when it actually moved back to the original channel 4 tower!). Consequently the ratings slid badly, which is a no-no for a market with long-standing allegiance to either WSCV, WSVN or WPLG. At least they aren't in the cellar anymore, thanks to WFOR.

 

And KNTV always reached a modest portion of the San Francisco market, even before the 1999 signal upgrades under Granite. (If I'm not mistaken, that 1999 upgrade was what led to ABC finally cutting ties with KNTV... or was that the other way around?)

 

But here's the thing. BOTH WTVJ and KNTV were known quantities with existing operations AND had signals that, while sub-par, at least covered most of their respective markets. WNEU has none of those working in their favor: it's effectively a start-up with imperceptible OTA coverage that can't be improved upon in any way, shape or form, and a nascent news department operating as a de facto extension of NECN.

 

And if Comcast was going to acquire booster translators for WNEU, wouldn't it be common knowledge by now? How easy (or difficult) is it to accrue a booster translator?

 

2. They held on to WJAR for 10 years. Do you think they didn't do any engineering studies to see if they couldn't move it to Boston? I'm sure they did and either the band was too crowded or the loss of a dominant station in Providence couldn't be justified.

Aside from the obvious [expletive]storm NBC would have faced, I don't think they even considered such a move. NBC operated WJAR as a Providence station and sold it off four months before Ed Ansin laid hands on WLVI.

[TSSZNews 1051]

I know exactly how long NBC will be able to pull this with WNEU.

 

If/when (most likely when) the Patriots play in either an NBC aired Super Bowl or Divisional Game--which very easily could be in 2018 for the former and for the latter it's absolutely a better than 50/50 chance for this upcoming season--and the politicians in Massachusetts realize the only reasonable way their constituents can watch is by paying for cable--that's when someone's going to step in, and fast.

[NEOMatrix 1299]

I know exactly how long NBC will be able to pull this with WNEU.

 

If/when (most likely when) the Patriots play in either an NBC aired Super Bowl or Divisional Game--which very easily could be in 2018 for the former and for the latter it's absolutely a better than 50/50 chance for this upcoming season--and the politicians in Massachusetts realize the only reasonable way their constituents can watch is by paying for cable--that's when someone's going to step in, and fast.

Try next year, when NBC will more than likely get a few Sunday night Patriots games and then politicians will b*tch to the FCC to force WNEU to at least have a translator in Boston.

[CircleSeven 1955]

I basically don't give a damn about the market's heavy cable rate. If you can't receive the new O&O's OTA signal in the market, then it is a failure. That means viewers from the city due south will be out of luck come the start of next year. And I assume many of them don't have a strong VHF antenna to receive WJAR. Not everyone have Comcast, or DirecTV or any other MVPD.

 

I feel that no one should be subjected to either paying the big fat pig (Comcast), or risking their lives going on top of their roofs installing an outdoor antenna, just to watch the local news & sports programming from NBC (either from WNEU or WJAR), when it's suppose to be OTA accessible for everybody in the market to see.

 

Again, they should've done their homework and bought a low-rated station (that Ion station or WMFP or something) that would fill the entire market. Yeah, Ansin would've been pissed, but at least they would have a full-market signal ready for the new O&O, instead of just using WNEU. But this has been nothing but a nightmare for NBC, and they're going to suffer big time.

[effseesee 101]

The OTA rate in the Boston market is 3.7%, the lowest in the U.S. There's no reason to go out and buy another full power station to satisfy that small a segment of the population.

 

https://www.tvb.org/Public/Research/CompetitiveMedia/CableADS/ADS,Wired-CableandBroadcastOnlyPenetrationbyDMA.aspx

[jbnews 344]

Poor NBC Boston. I thought this would be a good station, but maybe not so much now. I think the best bet is NBC buys FOX 25 from Cox because Cox does not want a dead last station. Then the FOX affiliation goes to WHDH. Then everybody has an affiliation.

[mardek1995 200]

The OTA rate in the Boston market is 3.7%, the lowest in the U.S. There's no reason to go out and buy another full power station to satisfy that small a segment of the population.

 

https://www.tvb.org/Public/Research/CompetitiveMedia/CableADS/ADS,Wired-CableandBroadcastOnlyPenetrationbyDMA.aspx

Then again, the entire atlantc and northeast (or new england, same initials) regions, including the entire state of new york (not just nyc, but especially that city) have high cable usage rates, not to mention that the eastern time zone is where the most prestigious universities (ivy league) and the highest overall incomes are, so they can afford cable even now, at least, a lot of them

[Rusty Muck 4378]

The OTA rate in the Boston market is 3.7%, the lowest in the U.S. There's no reason to go out and buy another full power station to satisfy that small a segment of the population.

 

https://www.tvb.org/Public/Research/CompetitiveMedia/CableADS/ADS,Wired-CableandBroadcastOnlyPenetrationbyDMA.aspx

I'll echo CircleSeven's point...

I feel that no one should be subjected to either paying the big fat pig (Comcast), or risking their lives going on top of their roofs installing an outdoor antenna, just to watch the local news & sports programming from NBC (either from WNEU or WJAR), when it's suppose to be OTA accessible for everybody in the market to see.

Comcast is the predominant cable source in the market. You'll have no choice but to (over)pay for a ton of channels you'll never want or watch just to see a channel intended to be free-to-view for all. This smacks of simple extortion.

 

Once the Massachusetts pols get an earful from that 3.7% without cable in January... then the proverbial excrement will hit the nearby oscillating device.

[mre29 1537]

Comcast is the predominant cable source in the market. You'll have no choice but to (over)pay for a ton of channels you'll never want or watch just to see a channel intended to be free-to-view for all. This smacks of simple extortion.

 

So just get the absolute minimal package that includes WNEU. Or, if you watch very little TV, learn to live without NBC until things change. Watch several shows regularly on NBC? Some sort of cable package is probably worth it to you. Watch only one or two shows? Don't bother.

 

And if anyone's curious as to why New England has such a high cable penetration rate, I have one word for you: Hills. They make it really hard for TV signals to get out.

[elfuego35 90]

I'll echo CircleSeven's point..

 

Comcast is the predominant cable source in the market. You'll have no choice but to (over)pay for a ton of channels you'll never want or watch just to see a channel intended to be free-to-view for all. This smacks of simple extortion.

 

Once the Massachusetts pols get an earful from that 3.7% without cable in January... then the proverbial excrement will hit the nearby oscillating device.

 

So... 84,000 households then. (3.7 % of households/ appox. 2.5 Million). NBC will likely tell those people "The games are streamed live on NBCSports.com".

 

That said, we are in the middle of a revolution, where people are forgoing Cable, (and Traditional TV), for OTT Solutions (which only require internet access), and that 3.7% could easily be 12-15% by 2020, especially in an market like Boston, who don't like Comcast to begin with, and more people coming of age who are likely to ditch Traditional TV (not just Pay TV) for OTT Solutions.

 

This is what happens when you have a legal monopoly buy out one of the major broadcasters, and said monopoly has a news division without a station, which is why NBC only wanted the license to WHDH... which in of itself would be a disaster, since as Maria Stephanos being forced out by WFXT shows, the market is loyal to the market personalities, and would have stayed with the old WHDH news department on WLVI.

 

Unlike others, I am somewhat giving NBC benefit of the doubt when it comes to purchasing another station. Remember, the FCC published the auction prices, and the owners of the low rated stations are using those numbers as a valuation point, and likely felt that no matter the price the FCC ultimately pays,it isn't what NBC would pay. That said, NBC should have planned better. They knew that Ansin was a pain to deal with (see Miami, 1988), and as such should have kept their stake in WWDP when they sold off ShopNBC, if only to give them leverage in negotiations, if not as Plan B.

[NEOMatrix 1299]

I'll echo CircleSeven's point...

 

Comcast is the predominant cable source in the market. You'll have no choice but to (over)pay for a ton of channels you'll never want or watch just to see a channel intended to be free-to-view for all. This smacks of simple extortion.

 

Once the Massachusetts pols get an earful from that 3.7% without cable in January... then the proverbial excrement will hit the nearby oscillating device.

Yeah if I was in Boston, I wouldn't shell 20 bucks for lifeline cable when I could get an antenna and get it for FREE. NBC could have avoided this by buying WMFP or WBPX or WTMU-LD, but noooooo, they effectively want to make NBC cable-only in Boston. I hope this falls flat on NBCU's face when the February sweeps come.

[NewsMaster 226]

Here's an update from the Herald.

[Rusty Muck 4378]

From that Herald article:

Another intriguing scenario that has been run through the rumor mill would have Ansin buying or making a trade for Fox 25 in Boston with current owners the Cox Media Group. That would give Ansin — who owns the Fox affiliate in Miami — Fox programming to replace the NBC shows he will lose in January.

Did the writer simply let her imagination run wild, or did she completely misread and misinterpret everything in the Speculatron thread? Good grief.

 

My head hurts.

[rkolsen 1684]

They could even redo a promo WTVJ used back when NBC switched from WSVN/7 to WTVJ/4: Past the video games on 3 and before the goofy station on 5. *

 

Past the crazy Spanish programs on 58, but before the goofy "Pay to Pray" stuff on 62...

 

* Irony was "the goofy station on 5" was WPTV, NBC in West Palm Beach, which had OTA coverage in the north half of the Miami market, including at my parents place just north of downtown. Of course, WPTV ran it's own promos: "We're not about to change!" (WPEC went from ABC to CBS, WTVX from CBS to Ind., and WPBT signed on as ABC.)

 

Do you have a video of the promo?

[Rusty Muck 4378]

Do you have a video of the promo?

IIRC, WTVJ's promos In late 1988/early 1989 revolved around a customized version of Bobby McFerrin's "Don't Worry, Be Happy."

[tyrannical bastard 3955]

At least a potential Channel 68 (WBPX) purchase in Boston would replicate of the coverage provided by WHDH.

 

Wherever "NBC Boston" ends up, it better be on some good real estate on Comcast. WNEU is currently on channel 53, and WBPX is on 19. Poor WFXT is on channel 25 while their "VHF" counterparts are on the same channels (2, 4, 5, and 7). NECN is on channel 6.

 

HSN is on 3, public access is on 8 & 9, EVINE (WWDP) is on 10, 11 is vacant, WLVI is on 12, and NESN is on 13. Others like WSBK and WBIN are in the mid-teens in "cable-land" while others are peppered in where there's space.

 

I'm assuming Comcast has gone digital there, so channel 11 may have been re-purposed for digital purposes (large blocks of channels elsewhere in the triple-digits). Something in "VHF-land" would be their best shot, and seeing as how it's an inside job, expect someone to get plucked out of "VHF-land" to make room for "NBC Boston".

 

Given the fact that WFXT and even WSBK are outside of "VHF-land" on the lineup, it's probably a good source of WFXT's troubles. Usually, top 4 stations all find their way in the "VHF" channel area. It's a relic of the analog days since channels 2-13 are identical in both the CATV and antenna mode, and those who didn't have cable ready TVs could still plug in a cable and get their local stations.

It's now a moot point since Comcast has abandoned analog cable and EVERYONE has to use a converter of some sort...even free QAM is now unavailable.

 

Cable channeling these days is ridiculous....how could anyone remember the three-digit channel number the station is assigned to? At least X1 allows auto-tuning from the original SD number to the HD counterpart...

[DirtyHarry 727]

The OTA rate in the Boston market is 3.7%, the lowest in the U.S. There's no reason to go out and buy another full power station to satisfy that small a segment of the population.

 

 

170 Quincy-Hannibal-Keokuk 99,050 0.087

171 Rapid City 98,400 0.087

172 Utica 98,330 0.087

173 Dothan 97,150 0.086

174 Lake Charles 93,780 0.083

175 Elmira (Corning) 90,340 0.080

176 Jackson, TN 89,620 0.079

177 Watertown 89,070 0.079

178 Harrisonburg 89,020 0.079

179 Alexandria, LA 86,270 0.076

180 Marquette 82,320

That is incorrect. 3.7% of Boston TV homes is roughly 90,000 homes. It's roughly the size of these markets listed. Yes, even 3. 7% is worth their while.

[Rusty Muck 4378]

Here's an update from the Herald.

The more I read this article... I just can't comprehend it. The author even totally downplays the obvious endgame of NBC going to WNEU by having one of her "insiders" dismiss it outright.

 

Articles like this won't help the inevitable confusion in any way, and they'll exacerbate the angry calls to Sens. Warren and Markey and Rep. Frank, the last three pols you want to tick off.