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Another noteworthy example is when WXIA debuted their new logo and this forum attacked it harshly. The 1993-debuted serif 11 with the blue boxes needed to go, it didn't fit the design language of neither the G3 graphics package nor the current TEGNA package. Plus, it was a change in direction for 11Alive; you could tell they wanted to target more urban, more city and more underserved neighborhoods, and be more activist journalism. Where Atlanta Speaks isn't just a slogan, that is a philosophy. Theoretically, this format is a modern day Action News or Eyewitness News, in that it is intended to be different than what the other stations are putting out. The problem is that their target audience isn't watching the local news. But, back to the logo, it definitely is not as inspired of a design as the 1993 logo, but it holds up really well given the autonomy that WXIA has been given to modify their graphics and opens to take advantage of the 11 shape. They couldn't have done any of that with the 1993 logo. That 11 can be scaled up, scaled down, and people would still recognize it. Honestly, it did what it was meant to do. And as far as still branding as "11Alive," they learned in 1993 that if you have a unique brand, don't fix it. Don't break it. It makes them stand out from every other "Channel 11" out there, it's been tested and futureproofed.

And that’s a wrap! The montage was wonderful. Jim was remarkably somber in his final newscast but gave a pretty robust and powerful farewell speech. I almost chocked up when Jim and Cecily made their final exchange after Cecily gave the forecast right before the last commercial break.

I like it, it's plain but it's clean. Though, if you're going to brand your newscasts "CBS News Bay Area," wouldn't it be more logical to brand as "CBS Bay Area"? Just my 2 cents.

Missing the point. "Action News" and "Eyewitness News" are extremely dated brands, and are more or less cliché at this point. It's nearly 2023, it's time to find new ways of branding local news outside of two 60's era news formats. The formats themselves are barely even used anymore. I sure don't notice any difference between an "Action" or "Eyewitness" newscast and... every other newscast out there.

Jim’s final newscast in full. What a legend.

Syndicated programming now with the updated bug. If that’s the case, makes me wonder what the new mic flags will look like.

Even in the 1980s there was minimal difference between the two brands. Look at Bill Bonds at WXYZ with Action News, and it was basically all centered around Bill Bonds and his on-air presence. Ditto with Irv Weinstein at WKBW; they used the EWN name but it wasn't anywhere close to the Al Primo EWN. The brands were never uniformly applied and mean different things to different people. @HulkieD has brought up how CapCities slowly (even if unintentionally) morphed WABC into... if not a Xerox of WPVI, then obviously a station with WPVI's Action News in its' blood. It still used the EWN name, but it wasn't the EWN pre-1986. WOIO's usage of Action News is mostly associated with the "last-place, last-chance news" uber-populist format that Bill Applegate---the same person who presided over WABC's late-80s changes---put in, almost out of desperation by Raycom, having admitted to overpaying for WOIO/WUAB when they bought out Malrite. It is a tainted brand in the market. EWN means nothing in Cleveland and hasn't meant anything since WEWS gave it up in 1990, and even then, NewsChannel 5 meant nothing when they gave it up a few years ago, aside from people likely confusing WEWS with WPTV on social media. If WOIO used EWN, it would feel tacked on and meaningless. (Yes, channel 3, then KYW-TV, originated EWN from 1959 to 1965 but it predated Al Primo or even Westinghouse's full treatment of the brand. Because of the passage of time, few are alive to actually remember when it debuted in Cleveland.) It actually says a lot that none of the stations in Cleveland have a so-called "brand" for their newscasts: 3 News, News 5, Fox 8 News and 19 News. But does it matter? I'm from Cleveland and I can tell the four news operations apart fairly easily.

I am not trying to be snarky in asking this, but what makes a station logo “unchangeable”? And why should we hold a television station to unrealistic standards when practically every other business in existence either refreshes or redesigns their logos or branding every X years? Stations logos and network logos are meant to be changed and to adapt with the times. NBC and ABC did what they did for practical and functional reasons. CBS **finally** adopted a design standard among the network and O&Os for the same reason. WKYC debuted their current logo—which is above and beyond the garbled mess that their prior logo became—for the same reason. Change can hold promise and potential. When WOIO rebranded as “19 News” in 2019, then-GM Erik Schrader said, "we have to stand out. Action News was an effective brand for its time, but time moved on and we had to move on, too. And tastes will change. As much as I like this brand (19 News), it probably will eventually change."

KNTV never was able to settle on a number (3/11). WVIT is 30. It’s a bit different with KPIX 5.

For markets dominated by Nexstar where others have been bought out by them, this is seriously bad news, especially in emergency situations; you can be sure mets will be pissed off they can't say 'stream us live' during a tornado warning (or have to whip up a jerry-rigged FB Live stream to do so). And this is a direct Exhibit A about why net neutrality should definitely apply to broadcasters. You're better off buying P+ or Peacock and streaming a local CBS or NBC affiliate that way so you don't have to bother with these fights NX wants to pick with everyone, and you hope that an ABC livestream will be part of Disney+ premium soon. And if WGN thought things were bad when they took the 9 off of now-News Nation, this is coal in the stocking to their stubborn snowbird audience, but Perry won't care.

Three things going on here: 1. These retransmission fees are indeed causing people to cut the cord. I was like the proverbial frog in slow boiling water. We went from $80, to $110, to $130 and I kept toying with the idea of cutting the cable with each increase. But when it hit almost $170 with all the other fees at the end of the bill, including retransmission fees, that's when I had enough. I think $30 was added on top of the cable bill for retransmission fees and for sports fees. No thanks. (Medium package only plus 100 gig internet, no phone, no bells and whistles, only one cable box, no DVR. Now I only pay 40 bucks for the internet.) 2. Cable companies should design their tuner boxes like satellite companies were doing before. Keep the local stations in your lineup so it is seamless, but have that signal come in through an over-the-air antenna instead of through the cable box to give people the opportunity to avoid those fees. If TV stations balk, then just pull them off the system. I don't think anybody will miss them at this point. 3. My cable company, before they sold out to another cable company, was actively pushing you to drop tv. They wanted you only as an Internet customer and they wanted you to stream. If you wanted cable, they wanted you to go through YouTube TV. Internet they say generates 80% of their profits, with very little effort spent on service calls and that sort of thing compared to TV which generates only 20% profit, but gives them all sorts of grief administratively.

That's bad news for all of the users who love Fox 8 in Cleveland. Apparently, Nexstar thinks that NewsNation and The CW are bigger priorities than digital.

That was a wonderful broadcast. Everyone's "thank yous" and honors were sweet, and Jim's farewell message was humble, poignant, beautiful and unforgettable. His shout out to his successors Rick Williams and Brian Taff was lovely also. I like everyone else will miss him dreadfully; but he deserves his retirement, and I know he'll live his best life with his family. Thank you, Mr. Gardner.

It's 28° where I am. I'm already chilled enough. Too many folks take the opportunity to pile on with that kind of stuff, making up speculative demos, showing what their home stations would look like. And you're right, a few are fine, but there's enough of a track record for me to know that if I checked back a few hours later, there probably would've been a dozen more. I only meant it as a casual reminder to all.

Thank for saying this in a much more polite, eloquent way than I wanted to. The "NEW GOOD, OLD BAD" attitude of said poster in this and another thread has rubbed me the wrong way, for some reason, but painting this community with such a belittlingly broad brush struck a nerve.

Christ Almighty. Once again, Perry out-of-touchness running wild. I hope the rivals eat them alive for this decision

PAX wasn't really even that great of a network. You can get the same comparable programming from Hallmark and other "family-friendly" channels now. The only thing PAX had going for it, IMHO, was Supermarket Sweep and Candid Camera. Aside from that, wasn't much of their dramas Canadian produced anyway? And it was never going to contend with the other networks with the amount of infomercials it ran.

That right there is the fastest way the networks are going to pull their affiliations off of Nexstar. NBC is a big one. Nexstar had better behave or they're going to get what's coming to them and quick. Then again, what would this world like had Meredith gotten their way with Media General and Sinclair absorbing Tribune?

Not true! When the 4p and 10p launched they announced the times in that show only. Anyway, according to the Philadelphia Business Journal, Jim's last show got a 79 share in Philly and 540,000 OTA viewers. The Eagles Super Bowl when they won got an 81. https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/12/22/jim-gardners-historic-action-news-swan-song.html

It appears Nexstar is taking two steps backward in their "digital first" mandate. Live streams of their newscasts are apparently coming to an end next month. They will be delayed at least 2 hours. https://www.ftvlive.com/sqsp-test/2022/12/21/nexstar-to-end-live-stream-newscasts The endless quest for retransmission money appears to be the reason. If they keep this stuff up, they'll end up like Bally Sports, and price themselves out of existence when the pay TV providers kick them to the curb and the networks begin pulling their affiliations.

Not to my knowledge. WABC was the same way for a long time.

Jim greeting tailgaters in the parking lot

I agree with @MichiganNewsGraphicsJunkie, who isn’t harming anyone. When people post these types of things, it’s not like the sky is falling. Everything in moderation, including moderation. Take a chill pill.

Adding my congratulations to Jim Gardner on his retirement (and was floored to see the post on that last newscast having a rating share almost as big as the Eagles' Super Bowl win almost 5 years ago) I will agree that WPVI might need to look for someone younger for the intros (the intro reminded me a bit of how Van Dyke sounded on the last couple of intros he did for WAVY-TV 10 before they dropped him in early 2017); though at least his voice hasn't declined to the extent Jeff Kaye's did about 12 years or so ago.

They had the opens already to go for tonight: I have to say Charlie is sounding rough these days. I wonder if they have plans to move on from him in the future. Maybe to someone like Paul Turner.

Wow. That's pretty damn stupid. But this is good old Uncle Perry we're talking about here lol...

I do think had Disney been able to keep them we'd be in the middle of a transition of those teams to ESPN+ rather than what we have now (though it can be argued NBC has been trying with their channels). SBG/Diamond thought gambling was going to be a savior, but most people just watch the game and that's it and find that as a distraction. Radio is free, out-of-market streaming is getting insanely reasonable, and if you know the right ways to do it you can round local blackouts if you're devoted enough. And you can only fill the schedule around these games with so many tennis tourneys, golf shows and outdoor shows that have smaller niches of their own. Feels like a self-inflicted wound; you're going to always pay for more channels rather than one streaming service with a shaky reception and very limited programming.

Charlie Van Dyke's new billing on Action News, like I said, will be something we'll have to get used to from here forward: "Action News...Delaware Valley's leading news program...with Ducis Rodgers, meteorologist Cecily Tynan, and Brian Taff." Also, this retirement of Jim Gardner will mean that all omnibus collections of WPVI opens on YouTube will have to be updated to reflect this new reality (as I understand it).

I still would've wished that our digital transition in the US would've solidified network channel numbers hell or high water. Fox has different channel numbers and managed to work things out, but it would've been a lot easier if we had went the Mexican transition direction, let a network pick a number nationwide and CBS was on 2, NBC on 4, Fox on 5, ABC on 7...etc. (and if you lost your affiliation a la WJMN, WZMQ got 2 and WJMN would be bumped down to whatever number Fox scrounged up for MNTV). Even the Canadian direction where all the networks/systems pretty much killed channel numbers altogether would have been better. Sadly outside a couple of outliers who tried (Tribune with that channel 72 attempt that died the moment WGN, WPIX and KTLA 'lol no'ed the idea, though I think that was more for interactive services that never panned out), it just never took root and the PSIP system in the US, instead of allowing a one-time remapping opportunity, just had the virtual channel system hobbled with legacy numbers and ideas like KCEN trying to move from 6 to 9 for a year and somehow getting 'feedback' that they were wrong and had to reverse back. Or those who did try to move from an absurd channel like 65 get yelled at by the FCC and other broadcasters for daring to take channel 10 even though nobody else in 150 miles had it. PBS is finally forcing their stations to have a unified logo and identifier, something that's been long needed, and it might be time for the major networks to do the same. And when most pay homes these days just tune to the network identified on YouTubeTV or Hulu, or say, channel 604/1004 for NBC in HD instead of 4 in SD...is there any need to hold onto 2-69 numbers?

The way I see it, Briella isn't wrong, but neither is nycnewsjunkie, and neither are you. It's the old adage of "perception is reality"... or more accurately, perception can become a person's reality.

Same stock buy.

This is what a forward-looking news organization looks, sounds, and feels like. I'm sure there will be people upset that the "Westinghouse channel numbers" and "iconic" other cruft disappears, but these stations existed before that stuff came around, and will exist after. Most of these stations never had a firm "logo" for their first 20 years of existence and they did just fine, without "confusing" anyone. Most of these logos have outlived several generations of logos at major brands. I'm still not sure why it's seen as important for a local television station in Baltimore or Pittsburgh or wherever to keep the same logo forever, while major companies like United Airlines or Hyatt Hotels get to update theirs just about every decade. TV has this bad history of treating viewers like they are absolute idiots. "Oh, we can't change anything because someone out there might get 'confused'." If someone told me RJ Fletcher's speech in UHF about the "pea-brained yokels" watching TV in his market was based on real worlds said by a real TV station GM, I would not be that surprised. There's nothing wrong with a little nostalgia, but it can't get in the way of progress. When a station branded as "TV 7" in 1954, that's because that's where it was. On TV. On Channel 7. That was it. The first signs this branding didn't work in the modern era came in the late 90's when every "ABC 7" and "NBC 4" was fighting for a relevant web domains. Then came Social Media. If I go on Twitter right now and search for "ABC 7" this is what comes up: Talk about "Confusing viewers" when the first one offers no way of identifying which station it is, and looks identical to the rest of the ABC7s there. No, most viewers do not know offhand how to differentiate between the different Circle 7s out there. There is no confusing where these CBS stations are located. I don't buy into these stations "losing" any "local flavor" with this branding, because locality is baked into the heart of it. You can be any one of a bunch of "CBS 2s" out there, but there's "only one" CBS News Chicago.

The thing about nostalgia-driven posters is that they’re usually the loudest people in the room. It’s easy to see how the perception takes root. Said posters can have their opinions on CBS going for unified branding and music not Enforcer being A Bad Thing but CBS is doing this because they see it in the best interests of the network and their station group. The execs in charge have determined that The Old Way Of Doing Things is no longer going to work.

Considering that you’ve got 10 people liking your post, and that a sizable number of people in this particular thread have offered nothing but uncritical praise for what CBS is doing, your perception is mistaken. Yes, there are people who don’t like it, and prefer stations to have individual characteristics, but that’s their prerogative. They’re allowed to have an opinion too. As far as my personal feelings are, I really like this rebrand. The graphics are miles beyond what they replaced, and IMO, they’re the second best looking local news package out of the US that I’ve seen (the best being NBC’s). although I’m not a fan of the way they use the call letters in what is very likely a temporary branding. The call letters in a box don’t look good next to the “CBS News X” really look sloppy IMHO. (EDIT: I probably should’ve noticed that already, but I really notice it now having seen it on air). I get that they’re trying to transition things over, but they’ve already been doing that for more than a year. In KPIX’s case, I don’t think the anchors/reporters even mention KPIX once. If you’re going all in on CBS News, go all in now.

It's not bad... but those L3's... eek

Considering that Nexstar owns the CBS (WKBN) and Fox (WYFX-LD) affiliates and operates the ABC affiliate (WYTV), they're going to want to find a different buyer.

I'm rather disappointed. Even though I am opposed to the new numberless branding, I expected to like the new graphics. That bug is huge and it looks like a copy and paste of the CBS News streaming package (which is the point, I get it). Didn't think they could do worse than the outgoing O&O package but this feels lifeless to me. I expect a return to numbers within two years.

Good find those sound like Spirit of Tampa Bay cuts

The Maag family is just trying to stay afloat in a market that's had its' population halved over 50 years. There's far too many radio stations in Youngstown and 1-2 too many TV stations. Even the Maags gave up on the city's lone daily newspaper. WFMJ's biggest weakness is the fact it remains locally owned; thanks to the M&A mania, WKBN-WYTV have the bigger advantage of economy of scale. WFMJ doesn't have the resources to compete with those two long-term, and even launching a 5pm news felt like their resources were being strained. The better question to ask is when do the Maags throw in the towel with WFMJ and sell the NBC affiliation and station IP to Nexstar.

The peacock isn’t the problem there. The rest of the logo is. Local stations need to get with the times and update their logos instead of holding the networks back.

Not for Lexington but I don't know, at this rate anything would improve WXIA's logo!

I’m sorry but having two different versions of the same logo is stupid. There’s literally no reason to use the old logo and the new one is miles better. Nostalgia doesn’t make something better than new.

Two new Phoenix finds... A 1987 KPHO newscast: And a 1992 KTVK weekend newscast:

As for the “why is flat better for mobile?” question, I’m far from a design expert, but I think this article puts forward a good argument for it (and explains it better than I ever could). Long story short, flat design allows for greater contrast and more flexibility. When you’re working with a smaller amount of space, gradients and gloss can be unnecessarily complicated and distracting. It’s the same reason why IOS and Windows dropped their old glossy designs they had for their operating systems several years back. I’m not against the old peacock or anything, but on the subject of NBC News, their visual presentation is looking rather dated IMO (although not nearly as dated as ABC). I’m sure they’ll eventually adapt their graphics to suit the new peacock, but I doubt they’re in any rush to do it given the similarities between the logos. I can be nit picky about this stuff myself, but I honestly didn’t even notice the changes when the new promos first aired. That’s how subtle they are IMO. But to each their own.

Are you trying to cause a riot in Philly lol

After his retirement, the obvious schedule to me is: Noon, 4pm, 6pm: Brian, Sarah, Adam, Jamie (only 4/6), Alicia (only noon/4) 5pm, 10pm, 11pm: Rick, Sharrie, Cecily, Ducis, Alicia (only 5) I imagine they will eventually decide traffic between Jessica and Matt, with one doing mornings and the other afternoon/evening.

I think it's pretty obvious that they've been grooming Rick & Sharie to take over for Jim for awhile now since Monica left.

Brian Taff gets my vote.

Wow, this hits hard. It's going to be a completely different landscape in market #4 without Jim. He absolutely earned and deserves his retirement after over four decades as Philadelphia's most trusted and beloved news anchor, but I personally will miss him on my TV screen every weekday evening.