Breaking: Cox/Fox swap stations, KTVU to become Fox O&O

[sanewsguy 509]

 

(but not midwest/southern tighty rightie, "get off my lawn or I'll get my rifle" type of conservatives.)

 

Way to stereotype conservatives from the south and midwest (considering I fall into that criteria)....

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, it mimics WRKO radio in Boston than FNC.

 

WRKO is a conservative talk station. Anybody who listens to that station should probably be fortunate they're an Entercom entity and not owned by Clear Channel, as they carry ABC News at the top and not Fox like CC stations do. And I think that's because of market demographics and the very left wing tilt in the Boston metro. Because if they carried Fox they'd be laughed at. Also note they don't have really have any competition in the conservative talk format in Boston. But their local hosts Jeff Kuhner and Howie Carr are about as far away from liberal as you can get.

[cbs2newengland 71]

 

I'll answer this and then try to tie it back to the topic of the thread so the discussion isn't completely taken off-topic.

 

 

Also, Sorry for all the links above. I didn't want people to think I was making shit up. So, I tried to cite my info as much as possible.

 

by no means was I attempting to derail the subject, I did remember part of the Big Switch year involved trades, and like I said before, the agreement cited the CBS Inc trade of that year.

 

 

Way to stereotype conservatives from the south and midwest (considering I fall into that criteria)....

 

Well my bad :/

 

WRKO is a conservative talk station. Anybody who listens to that station should probably be fortunate they're an Entercom entity and not owned by Clear Channel, as they carry ABC News at the top and not Fox like CC stations do. And I think that's because of market demographics and the very left wing tilt in the Boston metro. Because if they carried Fox they'd be laughed at. Also note they don't have really have any competition in the conservative talk format in Boston. But their local hosts Jeff Kuhner and Howie Carr are about as far away from liberal as you can get.

yes its a conservative talk station, but that doesn't mean everyone who listens are tightly to the right. No one I know listens to WGBH or WBUR for that matter (I broke ties to those people.) Actually you are inaccurate about the Entercom ownership. In the last decade they brought in hacks who never worked in radio in their lives and tried to go liberal. It didn't work. They hired a convicted Felon (the 2nd out of the 3rd straight House Speakers - yup that's the Welcome to Massachusetts for 'ya.) They paid Tom Finneran an obscene salary at a costs of all their 7 in house news anchors, and in late '06 they went to Metro Networks for all local news. Our Metro isn't like NYC/LA where they had stringers to do local soundbites, they ripped and read stories from the local papers. And I miss Fox News radio, they have anchors who are the pros like Sal Gingrasso, (the ol nighttime guy on WCBS radio) and WRKO's ex-ND, Rod Fritz had freelanced before going to WBZ, as he's an anchor now and others I am drawing a blank on.

 

The reason why they don't have competition is because of Howie Carr breaking his contract w/ RKO 7 years ago. WTKK had an opening after the Imus scandal, and to their dismay they betting that he would be able to switch. Both stations lost. And WTKK, err 96.9 has a heluvla a strong signal for Boston standards. In the radio sense, people in this market hate any chatter, whether it's DJ's talking about Khole Kardashian's divorce or the automatic increase of the state gas tax - its too much clutter for the ears. Look at the Yelp reviews on 93.7, someone was bitching why sports is on the radio - because its on cable. (do they not realize some people have to drive and can't see it while they are driving - young hipster idiots!)

 

Oh and WFXT has their liberal people. WGBH's Callie Crossley used (or still does) appear on the Morning News in the Boston studio to talk about the pop culture stories, etc. Sometimes liberals will slander a station when they themselves don't spend 5 minutes to see the newscast. I do not like FNC, but I am a center right guy myself. I don't like dramatized stories and little blond bimbos acting like a 9 y/o girl feeling for people in a remote area. That's not appropriate for a national level news operation.

[News 9 Viewer 100]

 

I thought we were done with the political chatter with WFXT (oh... I think I said that for myself.)

 

Fox 25 is not a FNC clone. If you are a liberal "moonbat", well then anything that isn't liberal would be a FNC clone.

 

I have to stress yet again that Boston DMA is not just Suffolk County in includes all of Eastern Mass and the entire Southern NH region. Also, Mass is not all blue, there is a center right base (but not midwest/southern tighty rightie, "get off my lawn or I'll get my rifle" type of conservatives.) I have friends who live in this area who are not moonbat liberals. If anything the WFXT format mimics WRKO. If WRKO was on TV, it would be Fox 25, especially when many RKO people have been on WFXT's newscasts for reax of various local political stories (and yet again, its not Roger Ailes influenced!)

 

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, it mimics WRKO radio in Boston than FNC.

 

 

Brief story is better than none. Checked late last week, no filings available on Fox 25's site.

 

You don't have to be Olbermann, Maddow or Matthews to watch one of WNYW's or KTTV's newscasts and then watch one of WFXT's newscasts and see virtually the same product. The only major differences between Fox 25 News and most of the other O&Os product is a dated set and the fact the anchors move around said set rather than sitting at the desk for most of the newscast. Having WRKO personalities as guests is no different than Fox News having all those far right wing pundits as guests on their shows.

 

Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised you can't see that, since you deemed KTVU's product to be of the "moonbat liberal" variety based on graphics and music, two things that don't affect nor do they neccessarily reflect the product of any news operation.

 

Maybe a quick history lesson is in order.

 

Most of the Fox O&Os have imitated Fox News virtually since Ailes put in charge of the O&Os in addition to Fox News. They imitate Fox News because Murdoch, Ailes and Abernathy think that what is wildly successful at the national level should have similar success at the local level. The reality is the newscasts on most Fox O&Os rate last or next to last.

 

The important exception is the former New World stations, both those still owned by the network and those now owned by Tribune. Those stations, who were Big Three affiliates for many years before switching to Fox, have news operations that are far more established and a balanced product that has not been changed at all because local management knows that it is in their and, regardless of what Murdoch, Ailes and Abernathy think, the network's best interests to maintain the status quo at these stations.

 

For the most part, traditional, balanced products are what win at the local level. There are stations like WSVN that win with a tabloid format but most market leaders are stations like WCVB.

 

Also, I live in NH, so I do understand that the DMA is more than just Boston. But the Boston stations mostly focus their coverage on the city and the suburbs. They always have and they always will. That's where the ratings are because most of the people in the DMA live there and many others work there. The only time they mention NH is during weather forecasts, election season, a major story like the death of officer Stephen Arkell, or a fluff piece like this or this.

 

Yes, there are Republicans in Massachusetts, in the same way that there are Democrats in Texas (with apologies in advance to sanewsguy). The facts are that all of the congressional delegates are Democrats, the governor is a Democrat, the state house is controlled by Democratic supermajorities, the mayor of the capital city is a Democrat, Massachusetts voters have voted for every Democratic presidential candidate since 1928 except Eisenhower and Reagan and there are three times more registered Democratic voters than there are Republican voters in the state. Any way you slice it, Massachusetts is a solidly blue state.

 

I will give you this, though:

 

 

Part II

 

 

Now this makes more sense with the personnel trading. However, I didn't think a new owner would fire management, because if they transfered someone elsewhere in corporate, they would probably have to hire new people to fill in the opening. Again this happens once in a blue moon, so I (and others) probably don't know why this is happening.

 

I do agree with the KTVU's monotone style. I wished I thought of that earlier. Try coaching Maria Stephanos to be a cold hearted b****h reading the news. Good luck to KTVU peeps, you'll get nowhere for someone like her.

 

 

What happened 19 years ago when CBS and NBC literally traded stations? Did they transfer management? I know it was very complex deal, because some just traded studios and also traded towers for NBC to get WCAU. BTW, the FCC filings reference CBS in 1995 in the trade agreement with FTS and CMG.

 

 

That's an inaccurate statement. Fox 25 had a 5:00 news on and off the last decade, when they lost Anderson Cooper and Ricki Lake 2.0, they had an opening to do the 5:00 newscast. And 11:00 has been around for at least 5 years, maybe more? Like I said earlier, its not copycating Fox News, they reach the WRKO radio audience. They don't make trashy headlines like "Boston Bombing" and add obscene drama like show like Megyn Kelly for instance.

 

You're right, that was a misstatement on my part. I should've said these newscasts were launched relatively recently, compared to their competitors (all of the other stations in the market have more or less had 5 PM newscasts since the mid '90s and 11 PM newscasts pretty much forever).

 

Finally, just to make things clear, I am politically independent. I hate partisanship in government and in cable news. It's well past time that our elected leaders and pundits stop treating politics as a game and realize that their decisions and rhetoric have a real impact.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

No but I think he's referring to the appearance of the station as a whole. It screams "Fox News". People in Ohio are different from people in Massachusetts and it's pretty clear the majority of people there in Mass. do not like Fox News. They see "Fox" and they think "Faux".

 

Are you sure it's going to be an interim setup? I thought, from what I've been reading, this will be their new permanent facilities. Maybe somebody from the Bay Area can clarify this.

 

Cleveland is different from the rest of Ohio. It is more East Coast in it's mentality. Still lots of old industrialist money up there. Lots of rich Jews up there too. Cuyahoga County votes Democrat in presidential elections by 200,000 +. (Metro Cincinnati is very right wing and Columbus isn't reliable for either side.) There are more Republicans in the surrounding counties but the tenor of the area is still Democrat. Ethnic Democrat, so except for Dennis Kucinich they aren't Bolsheviks up there, but still Democrats. I don't think people up there are big Fox News people either.

 

Maybe Myron knows the answer to this question: Does Cox have a cable news operation in Cleveland?

 

 

 

 

Way to stereotype conservatives from the south and midwest (considering I fall into that criteria)....

 

WRKO is a conservative talk station. Anybody who listens to that station should probably be fortunate they're an Entercom entity and not owned by Clear Channel, as they carry ABC News at the top and not Fox like CC stations do. And I think that's because of market demographics and the very left wing tilt in the Boston metro. Because if they carried Fox they'd be laughed at. Also note they don't have really have any competition in the conservative talk format in Boston. But their local hosts Jeff Kuhner and Howie Carr are about as far away from liberal as you can get.

 

One very talented radio guy who works for WHIO-AM told me that Fox is now the gold standard in radio news. (WHIO is with Fox). I know it also struck me as odd, too.

 

 

Radio and network news just isn't what it used to be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, just to make things clear, I am politically independent. I hate partisanship in government and in cable news. It's well past time that our elected leaders and pundits stop treating politics as a game and realize that their decisions and rhetoric have a real impact.

 

 

 

I don't mind partisanship. THere is nothing wrong with standing up for your principles and fighting for them. As to cable news? Who cares? I just want eye candy and people with charisma. Just don't make it boring to watch.

 

 

 

 

That's an inaccurate statement. Fox 25 had a 5:00 news on and off the last decade, when they lost Anderson Cooper and Ricki Lake 2.0, they had an opening to do the 5:00 newscast. And 11:00 has been around for at least 5 years, maybe more? Like I said earlier, its not copycating Fox News, they reach the WRKO radio audience. They don't make trashy headlines like "Boston Bombing" and add obscene drama like show like Megyn Kelly for instance.

 

 

 

I'm not a big fan of Megyn's. I think she is too argumentative and bitchy. I will give her credit for one thing, though. Whoever her voice coach was did an excellent job with her. Her presence is just like that of a newscaster from the 1960's or 1970's. Speaks with kind of a cadence to her voice, emphasizing the right words. Very theatrical in her voice.

 

One of my pet peeves about the media these days, especially local shows, is with the crappy voices most broadcasters have. I'd rather have a "broadcaster" from the 1960's who knew how to put on a good show over a "journalist" or a "meteorologist" any day of the week.

 

I wish someone would dig up the Irv Weinstein way of doing news. Straight from Top 40 radio - sensational enough to make it interesting.

[ToriElectra 291]

Cox does infact have Cleveland-area cable systems; but not cable news.

[CircleSeven 1944]

B&C states tonight that the DOJ/FTC has issued an early termination on the Fox/Cox swap, stating no antitrust issues.

[TennTV1983 748]

 

B&C states tonight that the DOJ/FTC has issued an early termination on the Fox/Cox swap, stating no antitrust issues.

 

That was fast considering it's just four stations changing hands between two companies with no clear conflicts whatsoever. This was all just procedural, so we can probably expect both this and the Sinclair deal to be greenlighted by the FCC at the same time before the month is over.

[memnews1 25]

Stupid question but I can't remember...when you say "greenlighted", do you mean actual ownership changes right then and there? Or are there still more steps?

[channel2 869]

It refers to the FCC approving the deal. This is the last step necessary before the deal can actually be closed.

[jero23 105]

 

That was fast considering it's just four stations changing hands between two companies with no clear conflicts whatsoever. This was all just procedural, so we can probably expect both this and the Sinclair deal to be greenlighted by the FCC at the same time before the month is over.

 

Don't hold your breath on the Sinclair deal...they have been mute for a reason.

[Samantha 2878]

 

Don't hold your breath on the Sinclair deal...they have been mute for a reason.

 

They've been mute because it was stuck at DOJ.

 

After getting DOJ and FCC approval, the acquisition must be consummated, and then and only then do things change hands.

[Rusty Muck 4174]

Cleveland is different from the rest of Ohio. It is more East Coast in it's mentality. Still lots of old industrialist money up there. Lots of rich Jews up there too. Cuyahoga County votes Democrat in presidential elections by 200,000 +. (Metro Cincinnati is very right wing and Columbus isn't reliable for either side.) There are more Republicans in the surrounding counties but the tenor of the area is still Democrat. Ethnic Democrat, so except for Dennis Kucinich they aren't Bolsheviks up there, but still Democrats. I don't think people up there are big Fox News people either.

 

Maybe Myron knows the answer to this question: Does Cox have a cable news operation in Cleveland?

No, and none of the cable providers do. Currently it's TimeWarner Cable that is the dominant provider. AT&T has a U-Verse presence, too (mainly because AT&T has the legacy Ohio Bell local exchange service). Cox only has a presence in some west side suburbs, mainly Fairview Park and Lakewood. Which makes their ads on local TV and radio a non sequitur.

 

It's not just Cleveland that is highly Democratic... Lorain, Elyria and Akron (and yes, especially Youngstown) all still have strong union presences and Democrat ties. You just can't tell based on the ridiculously gerrymandered U.S. House district map for Ohio.

[NEOMatrix 1295]

Let's get back on topic. With KTVU becoming an O&O, I honestly wonder how Fox will run it. I have a feeling that 2 will be run similar to the ex-New World stations (WAGA, KDFW) rather than the others (WFLD, KRIV). The New Worlders seem to have a more polished feel to them simliar to KTVU while the others, I have no comment.

[cbs2newengland 71]

 

Let's get back on topic.

 

We had been on topic. Good Gawd, I feel like I'm in special ed!

 

 

 

You don't have to be Olbermann, Maddow or Matthews to watch one of WNYW's or KTTV's newscasts and then watch one of WFXT's newscasts and see virtually the same product. The only major differences between Fox 25 News and most of the other O&Os product is a dated set and the fact the anchors move around said set rather than sitting at the desk for most of the newscast. Having WRKO personalities as guests is no different than Fox News having all those far right wing pundits as guests on their shows.

 

Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised you can't see that, since you deemed KTVU's product to be of the "moonbat liberal" variety based on graphics and music, two things that don't affect nor do they neccessarily reflect the product of any news operation.

 

Maybe a quick history lesson is in order.

 

Most of the Fox O&Os have imitated Fox News virtually since Ailes put in charge of the O&Os in addition to Fox News. They imitate Fox News because Murdoch, Ailes and Abernathy think that what is wildly successful at the national level should have similar success at the local level. The reality is the newscasts on most Fox O&Os rate last or next to last.

 

The important exception is the former New World stations, both those still owned by the network and those now owned by Tribune. Those stations, who were Big Three affiliates for many years before switching to Fox, have news operations that are far more established and a balanced product that has not been changed at all because local management knows that it is in their and, regardless of what Murdoch, Ailes and Abernathy think, the network's best interests to maintain the status quo at these stations.

 

For the most part, traditional, balanced products are what win at the local level. There are stations like WSVN that win with a tabloid format but most market leaders are stations like WCVB.

 

Also, I live in NH, so I do understand that the DMA is more than just Boston. But the Boston stations mostly focus their coverage on the city and the suburbs. They always have and they always will. That's where the ratings are because most of the people in the DMA live there and many others work there. The only time they mention NH is during weather forecasts, election season, a major story like the death of officer Stephen Arkell, or a fluff piece like this or this.

 

Yes, there are Republicans in Massachusetts, in the same way that there are Democrats in Texas (with apologies in advance to sanewsguy). The facts are that all of the congressional delegates are Democrats, the governor is a Democrat, the state house is controlled by Democratic supermajorities, the mayor of the capital city is a Democrat, Massachusetts voters have voted for every Democratic presidential candidate since 1928 except Eisenhower and Reagan and there are three times more registered Democratic voters than there are Republican voters in the state. Any way you slice it, Massachusetts is a solidly blue state.

 

[...]

 

Finally, just to make things clear, I am politically independent. I hate partisanship in government and in cable news. It's well past time that our elected leaders and pundits stop treating politics as a game and realize that their decisions and rhetoric have a real impact.

 

Let me put it this way, attempt to put it in full circle. Ether I am sensitized or something else but I didn't think that Roger Ailes and Jack Abernathy had that much influence towards the Fox O&Os, and since WFXT has done things their own way (as I had mentioned throughout this thread.) I don't immediately think of Ailes, et al. This can back up my theory of how local WFXT has ran their operation. For a long time I thought that was BS or a botched attempt, since the first mandate was done under Ailes' watch as the head of the O&Os for a period of time 8 or so years ago. (The graphics weren't even close to the FNC look and it slowly went nowhere close to this really crappy package they are using now. I do like the mid '00s look and the late 90s look, but I digress.)

 

On the coverage of the market, maybe they could take a page off a defunct station like WNAC. I just found this YT as I had been replying - the tagline "there's more to NE than just Boston" makes a heluvla lot of sense (at least for this guy) youtube.com/watch?v=stzy_IEO09c

 

I am not a big fan of WHDH anymore. I used to watch them despite the tabloid nature, but when anchors like Randy Price left after disagreeing with management, I haven't watched them as much. The WSVN format finally reached Boston (after how many years they owned them?) and for me it doesn't do anything for me. WCVB has gone more sensational, and I am not a Boston kinda guy ether. So I kinda like a station middle of the road. Since WBZ and WFXT are the least watched stations, I think maybe it be too much for Cox to make WFXT competitive against WCVB. 3rd place is better than 4th, maybe they should think like Steve Jobs and "Think Different" (for their audience - not like the sense of getting away with not using the O&O music open to stingers - I want to make that clear! )

 

 

One very talented radio guy who works for WHIO-AM told me that Fox is now the gold standard in radio news. (WHIO is with Fox). I know it also struck me as odd, too.

 

Radio and network news just isn't what it used to be.

 

You can say that with other things (evening network news - on TV of course. And in a decade or so we will be saying that same cliche in cable news, right now its slowly drifting to it's decline, which is why many news programs are talk based - low costs.)

 

I don't mind partisanship. THere is nothing wrong with standing up for your principles and fighting for them. As to cable news? Who cares? I just want eye candy and people with charisma. Just don't make it boring to watch.

 

 

I'm not a big fan of Megyn's. I think she is too argumentative and bitchy. I will give her credit for one thing, though. Whoever her voice coach was did an excellent job with her. Her presence is just like that of a newscaster from the 1960's or 1970's. Speaks with kind of a cadence to her voice, emphasizing the right words. Very theatrical in her voice.

Megyn was good in the beginning, especially with Bill Hemmer, but when she got her own show, it wasn't necessarily her politics, but just the drama. Especially in the teases that lasts a minute W/ NO bumper music, and a package rolling without the punchline with a high strung stinger gave me almost chills. It is a lot of theatrics. It wasn't them going more to the right in the last few years that turned me away, it was just the tacky production that did it for me.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

No, and none of the cable providers do. Currently it's TimeWarner Cable that is the dominant provider. AT&T has a U-Verse presence, too (mainly because AT&T has the legacy Ohio Bell local exchange service). Cox only has a presence in some west side suburbs, mainly Fairview Park and Lakewood. Which makes their ads on local TV and radio a non sequitur.

 

It's not just Cleveland that is highly Democratic... Lorain, Elyria and Akron (and yes, especially Youngstown) all still have strong union presences and Democrat ties. You just can't tell based on the ridiculously gerrymandered U.S. House district map for Ohio.

 

Cleveland is still different to me from some of the other Great Lakes cities. It is essentially similar in makeup as Pittsburgh and Detroit (lots of European immigrant factory workers), but to me there is more of an east coast flavor. Maybe it's because of the strong Jewish influence on the east side. I don't think the other cities have as much of that going on.

[ns8401 846]

Cleveland is still different to me from some of the other Great Lakes cities. It is essentially similar in makeup as Pittsburgh and Detroit (lots of European immigrant factory workers), but to me there is more of an east coast flavor. Maybe it's because of the strong Jewish influence on the east side. I don't think the other cities have as much of that going on.

I know Detroit has a sizable Jewish population in about three or four different suburbs. The city is nearly all black however.

[cg41386 131]

I know Detroit has a sizable Jewish population in about three or four different suburbs. The city is nearly all black however.

Oak Park, West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills and I think Southfield.

[ns8401 846]

Oak Park, West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills and I think Southfield.

Those are the 4 I was thinking, I was just down by Broadcast House in Southfield a couple Saturdays ago and there were Orthodox Jews walking to their services at a large Jewish center and milling about not more than a couple miles east of the station.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

I know Detroit has a sizable Jewish population in about three or four different suburbs. The city is nearly all black however.

 

 

Oak Park, West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills and I think Southfield.

 

 

Those are the 4 I was thinking, I was just down by Broadcast House in Southfield a couple Saturdays ago and there were Orthodox Jews walking to their services at a large Jewish center and milling about not more than a couple miles east of the station.

 

Well, every city has their Jewish communities. Columbus and Cincinnati have them too, but they don't give me the same vibe that they do in Cleveland. To me, at least, there is an East Coast vibe there. When I'm on the East side of Cleveland, I feel a little bit like I'm in Jersey. Maybe it's just me, though.

[ns8401 846]

Well, every city has their Jewish communities. Columbus and Cincinnati have them too, but they don't give me the same vibe that they do in Cleveland. To me, at least, there is an East Coast vibe there. When I'm on the East side of Cleveland, I feel a little bit like I'm in Jersey. Maybe it's just me, though.

I haven't been there so I can't speak to that. Maybe the boardwalks on Lake Erie will help me out on that. I kid.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

I haven't been there so I can't speak to that. Maybe the boardwalks on Lake Erie will help me out on that. I kid.

 

People from the East Coast laugh at the notion that Cleveland is like an East Coast city, but compared to the rest of the Great Lakes and Midwest it certainly seems a little different. It's all relative, I guess.

[Rusty Muck 4174]

I haven't been there so I can't speak to that. Maybe the boardwalks on Lake Erie will help me out on that. I kid.

If you ever visit Vermilion - just 40 minutes due west of Cleveland - THAT feels like an East Coast city. (And that town actually makes VERY good use of the lakefront. Lorain is slowly trying to get there. Cleveland, however, is impaired by the silly notion that a redundant airport right on the lakefront is still necessary.)

[cbs2newengland 71]

according to WRKO's Howie Carr (who filled in as the commentator last week at 25), from what he was told, the trade might be completed in October.

 

media.wrko.com/a/94756549/max-robins-monday-july-21-2014-last-comic-standing.htm

[bhratbrat 423]

If you ever visit Vermilion - just 40 minutes due west of Cleveland - THAT feels like an East Coast city. (And that town actually makes VERY good use of the lakefront. Lorain is slowly trying to get there. Cleveland, however, is impaired by the silly notion that a redundant airport right on the lakefront is still necessary.)

It makes a great indycar track

[cbs2newengland 71]

Fox 25 had their commentator talking about a local grocery chain with a family drama involving the company. One of them mentions "if your boss leaves here, would you leave?"

 

Talk about a bad choice of example giving they will, in fact, have their bosses leaving in the coming months! (never mind they STILL haven't reported that little news.)

 

myfoxboston.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=10379402