Breaking: Cox/Fox swap stations, KTVU to become Fox O&O

[Rusty Muck 4251]

When WJW was a Fox O&O, it used "Good Day Cleveland" from 2006 to 2007 but the name reverted to "Fox 8 Morning News" around the time Fox sold it to Local TV.

The "Good Day Cleveland" title was only used from 1994 to 1995 during the 7a-9a hours, while the 6a hour was still titled "Newscenter 8 This Morning."

 

After WJW flipped from their long-running Newscenter 8 brand to "ei8ht IS NEWS" in October 1995, the entire morning newscast was redubbed "ei8ht IS NEWS in The Morning." That became "Fox 8 News in The Morning" shortly after the station was bought by Fox. And the entire morning newscast has held onto that title ever since.

[johnnya2k6 171]

WAGA's morning news has been called "Good Day Atlanta" since 1992...two years before they became a Fox O&O themselves!

[skbl17 188]

Also, there was the "Fox 5 Morning News" before "Good Day Atlanta" until 2012, when the former was dropped and the entire program (4:30-10) became "Good Day Atlanta".

 

 

WAGA's morning news has been called "Good Day Atlanta" since 1992...two years before they became a Fox O&O themselves!

 

[eyewitness_news 5]

Why Fox approached KTVU and not the other way around (there are TWO NFL teams in the SF/Oakland/SJ market -- 49ers (NFC) and Raiders (AFC) is beyond me. Now all four major networks will have O&Os in that market -- 5 (CBS)*, 7 (ABC), 11 (NBC)**, and now 2 (FOX).

 

* KPIX was originally owned by Group W until CBS took over it by 1994.

** KNTV (an ABC, later WB affiliate) was owned by Granite Broadcasting. NBC turned to Granite to convert KNTV into an NBC O&O because Young (which owned KRON) turned the network down, and as a result, NBC yanked its programming off of KRON.

[cbs2newengland 71]

 

Why Fox approached KTVU and not the other way around (there are TWO NFL teams in the SF/Oakland/SJ market -- 49ers (NFC) and Raiders (AFC) is beyond me. Now all four major networks will have O&Os in that market -- 5 (CBS)*, 7 (ABC), 11 (NBC)**, and now 2 (FOX).

 

* KPIX was originally owned by Group W until CBS took over it by 1994.

** KNTV (an ABC, later WB affiliate) was owned by Granite Broadcasting. NBC turned to Granite to convert KNTV into an NBC O&O because Young (which owned KRON) turned the network down, and as a result, NBC yanked its programming off of KRON.

 

appreciate the history less - think many already know that...

 

Anyways I think Boston and Memphis people should be greiving the affiliates will no longer be network O&Os. Some stations were never the same, when CBS got out of KMOV, the next year Viacom which bought them preempted 70% of the network programming, and closer to Boston NBC getting out of Providence in recent years, where WJAR is a shadow of its former self and sometimes an on air joke. MG really made that top notch station just unbearable to watch. On top of that plagiarizing WCAU which shows the childish management at WJAR.

[SteveKendall 30]

 

appreciate the history less - think many already know that...

 

Anyways I think Boston and Memphis people should be greiving the affiliates will no longer be network O&Os. Some stations were never the same, when CBS got out of KMOV, the next year Viacom which bought them preempted 70% of the network programming, and closer to Boston NBC getting out of Providence in recent years, where WJAR is a shadow of its former self and sometimes an on air joke. MG really made that top notch station just unbearable to watch. On top of that plagiarizing WCAU which shows the childish management at WJAR.

 

KMOV is a bit of an extreme example. KMOV actually preempted about 10 percent of the network schedule (in prime-time), and a big part of that was the fact that they preempted summer reruns of "Dallas" and "Falcon Crest" with syndicated movies. These days, network-affiliate contracts are usually pretty strict on preemptions, and Fox doesn't really seem to allow preemptions to begin with.

[cbs2newengland 71]

 

KMOV is a bit of an extreme example. KMOV actually preempted about 10 percent of the network schedule (in prime-time), and a big part of that was the fact that they preempted summer reruns of "Dallas" and "Falcon Crest" with syndicated movies. These days, network-affiliate contracts are usually pretty strict on preemptions, and Fox doesn't really seem to allow preemptions to begin with.

 

i thought i saw seven-zero. Wow, my memory must be failing me badly.

 

I can see Fox because they only run 2 hours of network programming on an average night.

[Breaking News 805]

Ok so it was announced that the Cox/Fox swap is going to happened, and FOX has been hungry to get KTVU. However at Cox; those employees are paid handsomely, and would you all expect cuts a year after FOX buys KTVU?

 

Also what about these employees benefits, because one thing Cox has that other companies don't have. However I did see Fox/Newscorp also has this as well. Cox has a pension plan where most companies have move to just a 401k plan.

 

I wonder how those employees feel about that? I do feel for the employees, because once you get those high price talent out and move cheaper talent in. It will be a different ballgame at KTVU.

[Jess 1110]

When Fox bought WTXF, the first thing they did was beef up the news department and add a morning show. Good Day Philadelphia debuted in April of 1996. At launch, the main program ran from 7-9; a half-hour newscast, named "Good Day at 6:30", preceded it.

 

In late 1997 "Good Day at 6:30" was expanded to the entire 6am hour and renamed "Fox Morning News". Different tone, different presenters, different everything. Good Day started at 7.

 

Along the way, however, Fox Morning News would essentially become the first hour of Good Day, starting in the first Jerrick run. When the start time was moved to 5:30am, Good Day started at 6:30. By the time it became the Fox 29 Morning News, the difference in tone, style, and content were absent. So a few weeks after they went back to Fox 29, they named a new team of Kerri-Lee Halkett, George Mallet, and Jennaphr Frederick. At that point the entire morning block became "Good Day Philadelphia". Hilariously, the 5:30-7am blocks were news-focused, and goofiness returned to the 7am show. This continued for years, as Good Day's start time was pushed earlier and earlier.

 

Earlier this year they finally fixed that. Fox 29 Morning News runs from 4-7am, Good Day from 7-10am. Different sets and themes for both. As it should be.

[jero23 105]

I don't know how I feel about this situation. For a period of nearly 20 years the Deep South's medium sized markets of Birmingham and Memphis had FOX O&Os, but I guess that time is over. Additionally, Memphis is essentially a regional tourist hub city these days aside from being a huge cargo hub via Memphis Int'l. Airport & FedEx HQ. There is some sort of prestige that comes with being in a market with a network O&O.

[Samantha 2878]

 

I don't know how I feel about this situation. For a period of nearly 20 years the Deep South's medium sized markets of Birmingham and Memphis had FOX O&Os, but I guess that time is over. Additionally, Memphis is essentially a regional tourist hub city these days aside from being a huge cargo hub via Memphis Int'l. Airport & FedEx HQ. There is some sort of prestige that comes with being in a market with a network O&O.

 

Yes, but in the last decade the small O&Os that were absorbed in the 90s have mostly been spun off. ABC, NBC and Fox all cut their portfolio of O&O stations down in sales. It no longer made economic sense for ABC to be in Toledo. (Fresno was kept because it has a vital infrastructure role in the ABC group as a technology hub.)

 

If Local TV LLC hadn't absorbed the New York Times Company, it would have had WHBQ in 2007. But Fox had to keep it because the NYT Company included WREG.

[DirtyHarry 720]

 

I don't know how I feel about this situation. For a period of nearly 20 years the Deep South's medium sized markets of Birmingham and Memphis had FOX O&Os, but I guess that time is over. Additionally, Memphis is essentially a regional tourist hub city these days aside from being a huge cargo hub via Memphis Int'l. Airport & FedEx HQ. There is some sort of prestige that comes with being in a market with a network O&O.

 

I don't know about that. Given what I've seen over the years from WKYC and WCMH, I can't say that I'm impressed with a station just because it's a network O&O. I would much rather have a local station that is family owned or as part of a smaller "chain" than I would want an O&O, especially in markets like Columbus, Providence and Memphis where the O&O is an afterthought compared to New York, Chicago and LA.

 

NBC did some dumbfounding things, like buying a used news set from Louisville rather than build a new one for WCMH. And at one point before the sale to MG, they were going to use hand-me-down SD cameras from either "Late Night" or "The Tonight Show" (forget which) rather than buying new studio cameras. WCMH went to HD a lot quicker under Media General, where it was one of their more important stations, than it would have under NBC.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you are better off being in a market important to a Sinclair, Cox, Scripps or a Media General than you are as an unimportant market to a network. Just look at all the money Cox pours into WHIO - always a top-notch operation. Would CBS do that in Dayton-Springfield, Ohio? Doubt it.

 

==========

 

EDIT: On another note, I was noticing the similarity in the markets of Boston and SF. Both coastal cities, both high tech hubs, both financial centers, both large markets. Bay Area a bit higher on computer technology, Boston has computer technology firms but more on the medical side of things. Boston "might" have TV fewer signals, however, unless you count adjacent markets.

[Rusty Muck 4251]

Well, don't forget that NBC never wanted to be in Cleveland in the first place.

 

True, in 1956, the market was still in the top 10, but NBC coveted Philadelphia so badly that they engaged in extortion tactics against Group W for the Philadelphia channel 3 license. You couldn't really blame NBC for not wanting to return to Cleveland, rather, they were ordered back in by the FTC and FCC. So they ran WKYC almost as an afterthought, and it showed... Al Roker and Brian Ross should have had long-running careers at the station, but as soon as NBC wanted to transfer them to New York, off they went.

 

Quite frankly, the station improved immensely in ratings and prestige after NBC sold off majority control.

[tyrannical bastard 3491]

Being an O&O does not carry the prestige it used to. Back in the 90s before mass-deregulation took place, station ownership was much more diverse and contiguous markets were virtually non-existent due to signal contour restrictions. While the early days of deregulation (post-1996) brought some O&Os into the fold in the middle markets, most of these stations were divested in the following decade. Before the Fox O&O standardization, CBS Mandate and moves that NBC (and to a lesser extent, ABC) made to hub and standardize their owned stations, most stations had their own local flair aside from similar logos and some shared branding.

 

Instead of far-flung acquisitions (like NBC buying Outlet's stations only to spin ALL of them to Media General) or insurance policies (ABC buying WJRT and WTVG to provide a backup should WXYZ have bolted for CBS), O&O's are much more strategically placed in the largest markets where they have the most impact. Even if News Corp had decided not to buy the WSJ, I still think the stations they sold would have been sold off eventually.

[DirtyHarry 720]

 

Being an O&O does not carry the prestige it used to. Back in the 90s before mass-deregulation took place, station ownership was much more diverse and contiguous markets were virtually non-existent due to signal contour restrictions. While the early days of deregulation (post-1996) brought some O&Os into the fold in the middle markets, most of these stations were divested in the following decade. Before the Fox O&O standardization, CBS Mandate and moves that NBC (and to a lesser extent, ABC) made to hub and standardize their owned stations, most stations had their own local flair aside from similar logos and some shared branding.

 

Instead of far-flung acquisitions (like NBC buying Outlet's stations only to spin ALL of them to Media General) or insurance policies (ABC buying WJRT and WTVG to provide a backup should WXYZ have bolted for CBS), O&O's are much more strategically placed in the largest markets where they have the most impact. Even if News Corp had decided not to buy the WSJ, I still think the stations they sold would have been sold off eventually.

 

Didn't NBC buy Outlet as an insurance policy in Boston? They always had a testy relationship with Sunbeam. Had they lost WHDH to Fox, wasn't the idea to try to move WJAR to Boston like they did with KNTV in San Fran?

[sanewsguy 509]

 

Yes, but in the last decade the small O&Os that were absorbed in the 90s have mostly been spun off. ABC, NBC and Fox all cut their portfolio of O&O stations down in sales. It no longer made economic sense for ABC to be in Toledo. (Fresno was kept because it has a vital infrastructure role in the ABC group as a technology hub.)

 

If Local TV LLC hadn't absorbed the New York Times Company, it would have had WHBQ in 2007. But Fox had to keep it because the NYT Company included WREG.

 

Fresno's also huge a moneymaker for ABC OTV, especially that now their competition is basically Sinclair and Nexstar.

 

 

 

I don't know about that. Given what I've seen over the years from WKYC and WCMH, I can't say that I'm impressed with a station just because it's a network O&O. I would much rather have a local station that is family owned or as part of a smaller "chain" than I would want an O&O, especially in markets like Columbus, Providence and Memphis where the O&O is an afterthought compared to New York, Chicago and LA.

 

NBC did some dumbfounding things, like buying a used news set from Louisville rather than build a new one for WCMH. And at one point before the sale to MG, they were going to use hand-me-down SD cameras from either "Late Night" or "The Tonight Show" (forget which) rather than buying new studio cameras. WCMH went to HD a lot quicker under Media General, where it was one of their more important stations, than it would have under NBC.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you are better off being in a market important to a Sinclair, Cox, Scripps or a Media General than you are as an unimportant market to a network. Just look at all the money Cox pours into WHIO - always a top-notch operation. Would CBS do that in Dayton-Springfield, Ohio? Doubt it.

 

Dayton is very important to Cox however since that is where James M. Cox is from. Probably their second most important market right after Atlanta. If he had been born elsewhere then Cox wouldn't care less about Dayton.

 

 

EDIT: On another note, I was noticing the similarity in the markets of Boston and SF. Both coastal cities, both high tech hubs, both financial centers, both large markets. Bay Area a bit higher on computer technology, Boston has computer technology firms but more on the medical side of things. Boston "might" have TV fewer signals, however, unless you count adjacent markets.

 

Boston and SF are very similar to each other. Also both markets swing to the left politically so not much difference between the two.

[tyrannical bastard 3491]

 

Didn't NBC buy Outlet as an insurance policy in Boston? They always had a testy relationship with Sunbeam. Had they lost WHDH to Fox, wasn't the idea to try to move WJAR to Boston like they did with KNTV in San Fran?

 

Same could be said for Raleigh/Durham. Outlet purchased WYED in Goldsboro, and rechristened them as WNCN and secured the NBC affiliation after their disastrous tenure with WRDU/WPTF/WRDC. Owning WJAR helped them seal the deal and transfer all three Outlet stations to NBC itself.

[cbs2newengland 71]

 

Yes, but in the last decade the small O&Os that were absorbed in the 90s have mostly been spun off. ABC, NBC and Fox all cut their portfolio of O&O stations down in sales. It no longer made economic sense for ABC to be in Toledo. (Fresno was kept because it has a vital infrastructure role in the ABC group as a technology hub.)

 

If Local TV LLC hadn't absorbed the New York Times Company, it would have had WHBQ in 2007. But Fox had to keep it because the NYT Company included WREG.

 

I think exiting out of the largest market in the far northeast is just wrong. Sure Hartford has one, and Providence now none, but Boston is still a good market for network O&Os to own.

 

 

I don't know about that. Given what I've seen over the years from WKYC and WCMH, I can't say that I'm impressed with a station just because it's a network O&O. I would much rather have a local station that is family owned or as part of a smaller "chain" than I would want an O&O, especially in markets like Columbus, Providence and Memphis where the O&O is an afterthought compared to New York, Chicago and LA.

 

NBC did some dumbfounding things, like buying a used news set from Louisville rather than build a new one for WCMH. And at one point before the sale to MG, they were going to use hand-me-down SD cameras from either "Late Night" or "The Tonight Show" (forget which) rather than buying new studio cameras. WCMH went to HD a lot quicker under Media General, where it was one of their more important stations, than it would have under NBC.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you are better off being in a market important to a Sinclair, Cox, Scripps or a Media General than you are as an unimportant market to a network. Just look at all the money Cox pours into WHIO - always a top-notch operation. Would CBS do that in Dayton-Springfield, Ohio? Doubt it.

 

Sadly painting that stereotype with a broad brush shows tainted product because it was NBC. What you said is pretty ridiculous but NBC had no loyalty to some stations.

 

 

Didn't NBC buy Outlet as an insurance policy in Boston? They always had a testy relationship with Sunbeam. Had they lost WHDH to Fox, wasn't the idea to try to move WJAR to Boston like they did with KNTV in San Fran?

 

I guess we need to do the Boston DMA geography lesson. WJAR wouldn't been the reason to buy out Outlet. If that was the case, then Southern NH and parts of the border towns in Mass would've been without an NBC affiliate.

 

 

A better logic is to compare Manchester, NH and Boston as San Fan and Silicon Valley, both cities are 50 miles apart and would cover the market, but news coverage can be fairly argued with. If NBC wanted an O&O they could use one of the Telemundo satellite licenses up in NH to do that. (In fact they threatened that same thing 4 years ago)

 

 

 

Boston and SF are very similar to each other. Also both markets swing to the left politically so not much difference between the two.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, the extreme far left is only concentrated in the Boston area and parts of Essex and Middlesex counties. The rest of the market is Independent or politically purple. The latter has been WFXT's news demo which I fear KTVU mgmt will come in with their leftist agenda and ruin it for the rest of the DMA.

 

 

EDIT: On another note, I was noticing the similarity in the markets of Boston and SF. Both coastal cities, both high tech hubs, both financial centers, both large markets. Bay Area a bit higher on computer technology, Boston has computer technology firms but more on the medical side of things. Boston "might" have TV fewer signals, however, unless you count adjacent markets.

Again, the areas that you and Cox are obsessed with are not what the market really is. Sure Massachusetts had computer technology firms, they had been bought up by HP in legacy acquisitions. And Boston has hills and mountains too. And there is 3 more million people they can reach. Wine sippin' liberals and trust funded babies DO NOT watch WFXT and nor do THEY EVER WATCH OTA TV. The market already has an established liberal, far to the left, for the cosmos who think Boston is just within the I95/128 beltway and that's WCVB. We do not need another liberal, wine sipping news station for trust fund/Occupy Wall Street yuppies!

[cbs2newengland 71]

I can't figure out how to upload images here, made a photoshop map of the market, but essentially the market's boundaries are west of Worcester, all 6 most southern NH counties (including all 4 border counties), Middlesex/Essex counties and it abuts to Providence, and I forget which towns/counties end. The City of Boston, and it's towns nearby equal to just near a million people. KTVU again needs to understand its audience and not their idiotology. (made up a word, I know!) I fear KTVU East is coming.

[NEOMatrix 1295]

I can't figure out how to upload images here, made a photoshop map of the market, but essentially the market's boundaries are west of Worcester, all 6 most southern NH counties (including all 4 border counties), Middlesex/Essex counties and it abuts to Providence, and I forget which towns/counties end. The City of Boston, and it's towns nearby equal to just near a million people. KTVU again needs to understand its audience and not their idiotology. (made up a word, I know!) I fear KTVU East is coming.

Let's hope WFXT dosen't cover "Boston, Boston, Boston".

[DirtyHarry 720]

 

I guess we need to do the Boston DMA geography lesson. WJAR wouldn't been the reason to buy out Outlet. If that was the case, then Southern NH and parts of the border towns in Mass would've been without an NBC affiliate.

 

 

You have to remember what the situation was when NBC bought Outlet. It was in 1996 which was right after the big 1994 broadcast realignment. Sunbeam was still urinated off at NBC for what happened in Miami and bought WHDH in 1993. You better believe NBC was scared about being bumped to a UHF station in such a large, important and prosperous market. They wanted WJAR for the VHF allotment ... if they had to kick NBC to WLWC Channel 28 in Providence or to some other station they could live with that. Boston was the key.

 

I'm speculating about the latter, but the former was their real motivation is what I read in a few rags back in those days. But NBC blows with the wind so once the fear factor went away, they didn't need the Outlet stations anymore and they dumped them. Or who knows? Maybe they were going to move WJAR into Boston regardless of what happened to WHDH and screw Sunbeam a second time but for some reason weren't able to pull it off. Providence was a big deal to them.

[Breaking News 805]

 

I don't know about that. Given what I've seen over the years from WKYC and WCMH, I can't say that I'm impressed with a station just because it's a network O&O. I would much rather have a local station that is family owned or as part of a smaller "chain" than I would want an O&O, especially in markets like Columbus, Providence and Memphis where the O&O is an afterthought compared to New York, Chicago and LA.

 

NBC did some dumbfounding things, like buying a used news set from Louisville rather than build a new one for WCMH. And at one point before the sale to MG, they were going to use hand-me-down SD cameras from either "Late Night" or "The Tonight Show" (forget which) rather than buying new studio cameras. WCMH went to HD a lot quicker under Media General, where it was one of their more important stations, than it would have under NBC.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you are better off being in a market important to a Sinclair, Cox, Scripps or a Media General than you are as an unimportant market to a network. Just look at all the money Cox pours into WHIO - always a top-notch operation. Would CBS do that in Dayton-Springfield, Ohio? Doubt it.

 

==========

 

EDIT: On another note, I was noticing the similarity in the markets of Boston and SF. Both coastal cities, both high tech hubs, both financial centers, both large markets. Bay Area a bit higher on computer technology, Boston has computer technology firms but more on the medical side of things. Boston "might" have TV fewer signals, however, unless you count adjacent markets.

 

O&O stations only care about markets that in NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly which are bigger markets, and we see O&O shops in MSP, Sacramento, Tampa, Miami. Did the O&O cared about both station in Salt Lake City, Columbus, Birmingham, Cleveland? They probably didn't care, but enjoying repeating the $$$. If WHIO was owned by CBS they wouldn't get that much traction, but since it Cox second station and owns the radio/newspaper it got some new digs.

 

Being an O&O is not what it used to be, look at WWJ/ 62 CBS in Detroit and it been 20 years and their owned by CBS with no news department.

[DirtyHarry 720]

 

O&O stations only care about markets that in NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly which are bigger markets, and we see O&O shops in MSP, Sacramento, Tampa, Miami. Did the O&O cared about both station in Salt Lake City, Columbus, Birmingham, Cleveland? They probably didn't care, but enjoying repeating the $$$. If WHIO was owned by CBS they wouldn't get that much traction, but since it Cox second station and owns the radio/newspaper it got some new digs.

 

Being an O&O is not what it used to be, look at WWJ/ 62 CBS in Detroit and it been 20 years and their owned by CBS with no news department.

 

Cox is a pretty good company. Memphis' success will be important to Cox and Memphis will get more TLC under Cox than they did under Fox.

[ns8401 846]

O&O stations only care about markets that in NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly which are bigger markets, and we see O&O shops in MSP, Sacramento, Tampa, Miami. Did the O&O cared about both station in Salt Lake City, Columbus, Birmingham, Cleveland? They probably didn't care, but enjoying repeating the $$$. If WHIO was owned by CBS they wouldn't get that much traction, but since it Cox second station and owns the radio/newspaper it got some new digs.

 

Being an O&O is not what it used to be, look at WWJ/ 62 CBS in Detroit and it been 20 years and their owned by CBS with no news department.

I'm fairness WWJ-WKBD did try news a few times and tried WXYZ doing WKBD's news but it never stuck. Had WJBK not been a New World station it probably would have led Fox to start a station and news operation here and we might have 4 news operations.

[TexasTVNews 1367]

 

I'm fairness WWJ-WKBD did try news a few times and tried WXYZ doing WKBD's news but it never stuck. Had WJBK not been a New World station it probably would have led Fox to start a station and news operation here and we might have 4 news operations.

 

How long the contract WJBK has with FOX and is CBS thinking about jumping another station in Detroit soon?