Breaking: Cox/Fox swap stations, KTVU to become Fox O&O

[A3N 996]

 

could CBS be interested in some stations in AFC markets? and Wouldn't KTXH be traded with KRIV?

 

CBS hasn't really shown an interest in acquiring stations in AFC markets, at least not as interested as FOX. It seems like the O&O's are an afterthought for CBS, they're there and they don't deprive them of what they need to keep going but at the same time they are not treated like the ABC O&O's or even the NBC O&O's. That being said, if CBS should be interested in buying a station in an AFC market, then i'm sure they would be very interested in KFMB San Diego. They have pre-season tv rights to the Chargers as well as the regular season, plus it's close proximity to Los Angeles.

[bostonmediaguy 123]

 

I can't remember if I said it or not, but they never got any elements of the O&O's set (whether if was management that was against it, I really can't say for sure.) I'd like seeing the anchor desk appear, always liked that over the one that was original. And how many cuts in the Fox O&O theme 700? And yet they use the crappy cuts or worse a couple years ago they would play KISS 108 like music on the prime newscasts?

 

 

Well and this to me shows how badly management can run a station. All 3 should've (regardless of the situation) reported this. In one market a network is coming to own them, and 2 a network is abandoning them. WFXT hasn't said a PEEP about this story nearly 16/18 hours later. They could've done a 20 second voice over at their 10:00 show, and from what I see - there's nothing they did.

 

BTW: I loved how WCAU got people to turn to NBC 10 on that post switch newscast. Every station should've done that!

 

OTTH: Jessica Heslam, the long time media writer for the Boston Herald did do a story on the trade: Boston Herald's long time media writer, reports on the trade

 

Breaking is the Fox 25 GM is moving to KTVU.

bostonherald.com/business/media_marketing/2014/06/new_owner_at_fox_25_after_station_swap_with_cox_media

 

 

Well I think the time is now.

 

The way WFXT is treating this story has a striking resemblance of the way WBZ covered themselves during the precursor of the Big Switch 19 years ago. They tried to sweep the story under the rug and the management* was so flippin' arrogant, they probably felt that explaining the affiliation switch would go over the viewer's heads. And I thought Boston was the Intellectual Capital of the East Coast? I explained this to my parents right after I saw this story break on this thread, and reminding them that CBS owns 4 and Fox owns 25 and I erroneously said "sold" but when I explained the Memphis, my mother said "its a trade." Of course I live on the NH side of the DMA, but that's not the point. People are smart enough to understand the story and insulting our intelligence for management's own grandiose agenda is disturbing. I had enough of this BS. I'll explain more via PM per to your request.

 

* I know I say management a lot, but who else could I accuse people who manage a station or manage the editorial operations of the local news?

 

I think your memory may be playing tricks on you. WBZ did not sweep their affiliation switch under the rug. In fact, they promoted it far more heavily than WHDH did.

[Rusty Muck 4225]

Maybe Cleveland but I doubt Raycom would want to let go of WOIO/WUAB. Plus, 43 might not be able to poach the CW affiliation from WBNX. Finally, the Browns would have to start getting decent in order for 19/43 to even be on CBS' radar.

CBS did put their Cleveland radio stations on the block back in 2008, prior to the banking crisis later that year. That they have stayed in the market is more of a sign of 'we couldn't and can't sell them at the right price, so I guess we have to keep them' than a resounding vote of confidence in the market.

 

If CBS actually purchases WOIO/WUAB, my skull will leap out of my mouth at 100 MPH.

[Samantha 2878]

 

I really think now would be the perfect time for WHBQ to do a complete overhaul. New set (old one is almost a decade old), new graphics and logo (obviously), and even a new branding since they've been Fox 13 since 1994 when they became an O&O. They seem to move anchors around pretty often, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some switching up there.

 

I think WHBQ is the big winner. Under Fox Memphis was the odd man out, and it showed. With Cox WHBQ is a decent fit alongside its other, highly successful stations in major Southern markets (Atlanta and Charlotte especially, Tulsa is somewhat close to their new station too). Cox will pour a good deal of money into updating the station—probably the biggest changes since the affiliation switch (

).

[Rusty Muck 4225]

I think your memory may be playing tricks on you. WBZ did not sweep their affiliation switch under the rug. In fact, they promoted it far more heavily than WHDH did.

 

Likewise, KCNC went out of their way to promote that they were being traded from NBC to CBS. So much so that they ran an hour-long prime-time special that addressed why the swap was taking place in remarkable honesty. (That may have also been why KCNC kept the WNBC-style "4" for close to a decade after the swap, and left the 1992-era "News 4 Colorado" logo intact until late 1997.)

 

WTVJ aired a special report following SNL that covered their license/transmitter swap with Miami's CBS O&O live. Miami's CBS O&O threw up a final WCIX test card, then following the STL swap, ran their first WFOR ID and a minute-long promo. But both stations promoted the switch rather heavily, and in that case, they needed to.

[ABC 7 Denver 1562]

I'm going to take a stab and say that besides KCPQ, Fox is going to buy (or swap) for KDVR and maybe KWGN. In that case, KWGN would become that MyNetwork TV affiliate and Gannett would have our CW affiliate.

[1place4news 5]

The GMs trading places makes sense to me as they're both staying within their respective companies.

 

FOX will almost certainly move MyNet over to KICU, but I don't think it will have a significant impact on KRON because they really haven't put any effort into promoting their MyNet affiliation in the past few years. Still, I can't help but feel KRON comes out a loser in this, because getting the FOX network (and 49ers games) would have brought them back to relevancy in the market.

[skbl17 188]

 

I'm going to take a stab and say that besides KCPQ, Fox is going to buy (or swap) for KDVR and maybe KWGN. In that case, KWGN would become that MyNetwork TV affiliate and Gannett would have our CW affiliate.

 

Well that would be unfortunate for KDVR. Just a few short years after freeing themselves from Fox standardization, they'd be standardized again...by Fox.

 

Also, the Denver Broncos are in the AFC, so from an NFL standpoint, I don't know if Fox would be willing to go for KDVR. I'm not picking a fight or anything, or saying that you're wrong, but I'd really like to know why you think that KDVR makes a sensible acquisition for Fox to make.

[channel2 874]

From the way Fox has been mismanaging their O&Os lately, I don't want them to buy back KDVR.

[Jterry 43]

 

I know I'm late chiming in...but can't say I'm surprised that Fox is losing WHBQ. In a way I think Cox may actually help to boost WHBQ up a little bit. It will be interesting to see what graphics WHBQ goes with. If I remember correctly, Cox doesn't used standardized graphics

 

I really think now would be the perfect time for WHBQ to do a complete overhaul. New set (old one is almost a decade old), new graphics and logo (obviously), and even a new branding since they've been Fox 13 since 1994 when they became an O&O. They seem to move anchors around pretty often, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some switching up there.

 

Sorry I don't know enough about WFXT to provide any insight.

 

Only thing I wouldn't expect is a branding change. Both them and WXFT will stay Fox 13/25 news, as is customary for Fox affiliates anyway (KTVU was one of the major exceptions that lasted well beyond most - and as others are speculating those days are almost certainly over), and they might even retain the MyFox branding for web & mobile too.

[channel2 874]

Also: I know this is a little late, but in reply to the confusion over Fox holding onto KTBC:

 

As far as I can tell, KTBC isn't a black sheep within the O&O group, and Fox has no pressing desire to dump it; notice how, back in 2007, it wasn't up for sale. The geographical proximity to Dallas and Houston helps.

[nomadcowatbk 144]

 

I'm going to take a stab and say that besides KCPQ, Fox is going to buy (or swap) for KDVR and maybe KWGN. In that case, KWGN would become that MyNetwork TV affiliate and Gannett would have our CW affiliate.

 

Broncos are in the AFC

[skbl17 188]

I wonder if, once Fox completely transforms KTVU into another bland, lifeless O&O, they (KTVU) can keep a consolation prize: the branding for their renowned 10:00 newscast. Maybe something like "The 10 o'clock News on Fox 2", which KTVU did use for about a year back in the early 2000s. That way, the name of their decades-long program can remain in some form, even under Fox ownership.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, no more Mornings on 2. I wouldn't be surprised if "Good Day Bay Area" arrives a few months after this sale.

[johnnya2k6 171]

 

I wonder if, once Fox completely transforms KTVU into another bland, lifeless O&O, they (KTVU) can keep a consolation prize: the branding for their renowned 10:00 newscast. Maybe something like "The 10 o'clock News on Fox 2", which KTVU did use for about a year back in the early 2000s. That way, the name of their decades-long program can remain in some form, even under Fox ownership.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, no more Mornings on 2. I wouldn't be surprised if "Good Day Bay Area" arrives a few months after this sale.

 

Or ktvu.com becoming myfoxbayarea.com.

 

Meanwhile, myfoxboston.com could become fox25boston.com (or whatever the site was before the "myfox" branding) once again.

[dalekusa 0]

What if Fox went to Cox and said "give KTVU to us or we'll strip it of its Fox affiliation"?

Umm.. NBC did that with Westinghouse in the '60s, and it didn't go so well: they threatened to pull their affiliations with (the current) KYW-TV and WBZ-TV if they didn't trade KYW to them in exchange for (the current) WKYC. Group W obliged, but they complained to the FCC and the Department of Justice about it, and they eventually forced NBC to reverse the trade.

[Thundershock MN 169]

Well WFXT if they are automated, from when I land on 25 - must be seamless compared to other Ignite shops. 25 wouldn't be on the Ignite blooper reel from what I watch.

 

 

 

I thought there was more than NFC on Fox? NASCAR, miniseries of 24? The Simpsons? Fox News Sunday? American Idol?

 

I feel like I went into 1994 all over again with the tremors of the Big Switch era. I know NFC was important to Fox, but I didn't think in 2014 it cause them to buy/sell stations. Am I missing something?

WFXT (along with the other O&O's) uses Sony ELC for automation control.

 

NFL draws BIG numbers. That brings in mega ad dollars. And, it allows them to use that as a foundation on which to build everything. In other words it becomes a promotional vehicle to used to draw viewers to all those other shows. I've brought up the formula Fox uses a few of times before.

 

BREAKING NEWS: WFXT's current GM is going to KTVU/KICU. He will report to the new station after the deal is completed, reports the Boston Herald.

 

bostonherald.com/business/media_marketing/2014/06/new_owner_at_fox_25_after_station_swap_with_cox_media

That really disproves the rouge management theory. But, WRT WFXT not being "in line" with the other O&O's the only major thing was the set. And, I've always heard the reason WFXT didn't get the "set in a can" was that they didn't have space. Their studio/newsroom didn't allow for it. If WJZY was in the fold then they would have been in the same boat.

 

Why did they give up KTVI? Probably expect the Rams to move back to LA

Answered this here.

 

I think WHBQ is the big winner. Under Fox Memphis was the odd man out, and it showed. With Cox WHBQ is a decent fit alongside its other, highly successful stations in major Southern markets (Atlanta and Charlotte especially, Tulsa is somewhat close to their new station too). Cox will pour a good deal of money into updating the station—probably the biggest changes since the affiliation switch (

).

I wholeheartedly agree! I think they will finally get some attention since Rupert got a little ahead of himself trying to get another "football station" in WHBQ. They basically became outcasts the moment they joined the group. WHBQ wasn't just a small fish in a big pond they were a small fish tossed to the shoreline left to grasp for air. As part of Cox they will join a school of fish similar to them. I don't think this could have worked out any better for them.

[Rusty Muck 4225]

Only thing I wouldn't expect is a branding change. Both them and WXFT will stay Fox 13/25 news, as is customary for Fox affiliates anyway (KTVU was one of the major exceptions that lasted well beyond most - and as others are speculating those days are almost certainly over), and they might even retain the MyFox branding for web & mobile too.

Out of the spun off O&Os, WBRC has retained the MyFox brand for their website. Would make sense for that meaningless brand to be ditched from WFXT and WHBQ (as they are standalones with no MyTV duopoly partner).

 

I would find it funny if Cox ditches the O&O logos for derivatives of KTVU's soon to be former logo. A "25" adapted from the KTVU "2" would be fascinating...

[Thundershock MN 169]

What if Fox went to Cox and said "give KTVU to us or we'll strip it of its Fox affiliation"?

 

Umm.. NBC did that with Westinghouse in the '60s, and it didn't go so well: they threatened to pull their affiliations with (the current) KYW-TV and WBZ-TV if they didn't trade KYW to them in exchange for (the current) WKYC. Group W obliged, but they complained to the FCC and the Department of Justice about it, and they eventually forced NBC to reverse the trade.

It's a little different situation. Fox's affiliation agreements allow them to terminate the agreement and move the affiliation if they acquire a station in the market. And, Fox loves to use that as leverage to get what they want. That's pretty much been their MO with most of their swaps/acquisitions post Chris-Craft/UTV. 4 of the last 5 followed this pattern. They hung it over Clear Channel, Meredith, Capitol and now it appears...Cox. Three of them came out OK on their deals...Capitol got fleeced in my mind though. In every case Fox got what they wanted. But, all it takes is the threat or action of Fox acquiring a station in the same market. So, if you add a "...or, we are going to take the affiliation to our own station in the market" to Raymie's quote it differs from what NBC pulled. They all gave in because the threat was real or perceived as real.

[sanewsguy 509]

 

Out of the spun off O&Os, WBRC has retained the MyFox brand for their website. Would make sense for that meaningless brand to be ditched from WFXT and WHBQ (as they are standalones with no MyTV duopoly partner).

 

I would find it funny if Cox ditches the O&O logos for derivatives of KTVU's soon to be former logo. A "25" adapted from the KTVU "2" would be fascinating...

 

Did you know 21st Century Fox owns all the MyFox domains regardless of owner? WBRC's domain is still owned by 21CF even though they're a Raycom station now. Likewise, KJTV, a station FOX probably has zero interest in whatsoever, has their two domains, fox34.com and myfoxlubbock.com held by 21CF as well. Found that a little interesting to say the least.

 

I honestly think Cox will make little changes. They may expand more and obviously relocate master control back to Boston and Memphis (unless Cox has a hub I'm not aware of). They may dump the Fox O&O look or they may not. KOKI still uses the O&O music so it's not like they're being required. Seeing as Cox prefers to use Hothaus for their graphics though, I can see both stations getting new graphics.

 

As for KTVU, I know many are lamenting the loss of KTVU in the Bay Area under Cox. To me I don't care honestly. It's just going to the network. The network will not cater to anybody on this board and will do what they feel they need to do. You may not like it but it isn't your station, it's Fox's.

 

KTBC puts out a great product so I'm confident there will be little changes at KTVU aside from cosmetics.

 

I just don't know how the ultra-liberal mindset in the Bay Area would perceive a "Fox 2". Because I'm sorry and I'm not saying this is characteristic of all liberals, but some of them see "Fox" and automatically think "Fox News Channel" and associate that with the entirety of the company when KTVU's local news could very well continue to carry a liberal slant.

 

 

Look no further then this comment I read on a TV news site today and how wrong the author is:

 

 

Why all of a sudden does conservative media care about local news? In the past conservatives who run the media have done everything to undermine local news. When conservative talk radio started it undermined local news in a huge way. Before conservative talk radio like Limbaugh and Hannity news radio in each market was local 24-hour news and it local 24-hour news on the radio was replaced with syndicated conservative talk radio. Now you don't have very much 24-hour local all news radio . At Clear Channel radio stations which was a huge mouth peace for the Bush Administration and the Iraq War and all of its radio stations that boycotted the Dixie Chicks because they opposed the War cut a lot of local news programming on their radio and TV stations. Sinclair Broadcasting TV stations another conservative mouth peace that ran anti Kerry and Obama programs on their TV stations cut news staff at their TV stations and cancelled local newscasts. I really do not have patients [sic] and not much sympathy for people who never cared in the past and then out of the blue or last minute start caring which is what FOX a conservative network is doing by expanding local newscasts right and left this year on the TV stations. Its seems that lately this year that there have been a lot of people that have never cared in the past that all of a sudden care and it is really pissing me off.

Here, this guy is lumping in FNC's conservative slant with FTS. I also don't agree with any of his points about conservatives not caring about local news but if he honestly wants to believe that, more power to him.

 

(don't say local news doesn't carry a political slant because it does for the most part, which side of the aisle it does depends on the ND. I've seen both right and left bias on local news, and I'm not including Sinclair).

 

Maybe KTVU's master control operators can make the move to Boston along with their GM.... Kidding, I don't think they would make the cross country move just for that kind of job.

[T.L. Hughes 760]

I think part of the reason why Cox accepted the trade offer was because Fox offered them a top-10 market station in return for selling two others. KTVU is in the #6 market, WFXT is in market #7.

 

They clearly wanted to get rid of WHBQ, but probably came up with the idea of trading them WFXT as well, acknowleding the issue of the station being in an AFC market. As to why they didn't think of it earlier is beyond me.

 

Out of the spun off O&Os, WBRC has retained the MyFox brand for their website. Would make sense for that meaningless brand to be ditched from WFXT and WHBQ (as they are standalones with no MyTV duopoly partner).

 

I would find it funny if Cox ditches the O&O logos for derivatives of KTVU's soon to be former logo. A "25" adapted from the KTVU "2" would be fascinating...

And possibly ugly... The "Circle Laser 2" is good as a standalone only, I'm not sure it would look right paired with another number (I'd like to see some mock-ups of such a hypothetical design for WFXT to prove the idea wrong, though).

 

As to whether KTVU will keep the "Circle Laser 2," let's just call it a wait and see... Fox has precedence in throwing out the old numerical logos when standardizing but also keeping them too. Not just the WTVT and WJBK examples already mentioned but also with WJZY and (before Fox sold it) WDAF. That station's current "4" logo is a thickened, widened derivative of the old "Circle 4" it used from the mid-'70s while still with NBC to shortly after Fox purchased 'DAF, in 1997 (when the variant was introduced). It was carried over to the 2006-present kitebox design, too. There's also WITI, but the original version of its current logo only underwent color changes because the first version was featured prominently on its old "Milwaukee's NewsCenter" set, IIRC.

 

If Fox did try to swap one of its stations to get KCPQ, though, which one would they put up? I don't see how trading WPWR makes much sense outside of giving WGN a duopoly, since it's already part of a duopoly plus WPWR's an O&O (albeit of a non-sequitur peogramming service) in the third largest market... you'd have to be foolish to give up an O&O in NYC, LA or Chicago (and, no, I'm not counting Chris-Craft's sale of KCOP and WWOR in this, I think they gave up interest in UPN shortly beforehand).

 

Fox would need to offer Tribune an O&O where it has limited (such as a location in a secondary market, like KTBC) to no NFC ties, and it'd have to be a duopoly or a standalone Fox station in a non top-3 market.

[skbl17 188]

 

I just don't know how the ultra-liberal mindset in the Bay Area would perceive a "Fox 2". Because I'm sorry and I'm not saying this is characteristic of all liberals, but some of them see "Fox" and automatically think "Fox News Channel" and associate that with the entirety of the company when KTVU's local news could very well continue to carry a liberal slant.

 

Despite the fact you pointed out (FTS =/= FNC), this is still cause for concern for KTVU's ratings. It's not smart to underestimate the ignorance of the average viewer when it comes to who owns and operates television stations, even in the Bay Area. Of course, this is probably one reason why KTVU, aside from dropping their nostalgic Michael Randall music and occasionally changing graphics, has not changed that much in the last few decades. Having such a crazy change suddenly happen, especially when Bay Area viewers find out that "Fox" owns the station (thus leading to false "KTVU has sold out to Fox News!" type stories), may cause a significant viewer exodus, even if it doesn't lead to changes in reporting.

 

Thus, it may actually be worth it in this case for Fox to leave KTVU alone (despite the popular opinion here that such a thing won't happen). Prior to June 24, I doubt that the average KTVU viewer knew that Cox owned the station. If everything stays the same and Fox doesn't plaster their "Fox" look all over the station, KTVU may come out nearly unscathed in future ratings battles.

[Casey Buck 35]

A quick and dirty mockup of an O&O logo with the call letters, and the laser 2 cut out from the circle:

 

[SFTV 484]

^ yes!

[nomadcowatbk 144]

 

I think part of the reason why Cox accepted the trade offer was because Fox offered them a top-10 market station in return for selling two others. KTVU is in the #6 market, WFXT is in market #7.

 

They clearly wanted to get rid of WHBQ, but probably came up with the idea of trading them WFXT as well, acknowleding the issue of the station being in an AFC market. As to why they didn't think of it earlier is beyond me.

 

And possibly ugly... The "Circle Laser 2" is good as a standalone only, I'm not sure it would look right paired with another number (I'd like to see some mock-ups of such a hypothetical design for WFXT to prove the idea wrong, though).

 

As to whether KTVU will keep the "Circle Laser 2," let's just call it a wait and see... Fox has precedence in throwing out the old numerical logos when standardizing but also keeping them too. Not just the WTVT and WJBK examples already mentioned but also with WJZY and (before Fox sold it) WDAF. That station's current "4" logo is a thickened, widened derivative of the old "Circle 4" it used from the mid-'70s while still with NBC to shortly after Fox purchased 'DAF, in 1997 (when the variant was introduced). It was carried over to the 2006-present kitebox design, too. There's also WITI, but the original version of its current logo only underwent color changes because the first version was featured prominently on its old "Milwaukee's NewsCenter" set, IIRC.

 

If Fox did try to swap one of its stations to get KCPQ, though, which one would they put up? I don't see how trading WPWR makes much sense outside of giving WGN a duopoly, since it's already part of a duopoly plus WPWR's an O&O (albeit of a non-sequitur peogramming service) in the third largest market... you'd have to be foolish to give up an O&O in NYC, LA or Chicago (and, no, I'm not counting Chris-Craft's sale of KCOP and WWOR in this, I think they gave up interest in UPN shortly beforehand).

 

Fox would need to offer Tribune an O&O where it has limited (such as a location in a secondary market, like KTBC) to no NFC ties, and it'd have to be a duopoly or a standalone Fox station in a non top-3 market.

 

Houston, Orlando, and Austin, aren't primary NFC markets

[C Block 1489]

 

What if Fox went to Cox and said "give KTVU to us or we'll strip it of its Fox affiliation"?

 

Yep. If Cox said no, then Fox would have bought KRON and built it up as their own, making KTVU a marginally better KRON. This way, Cox now gets two stations that will always be competitive network affiliates. That wouldn't have been the case had they kept a Fox-less KTVU. As for branding, it's way too early to tell, and only the Fox people would know, even if they did know anything. If Fox were smart, they shouldn't tamper too much with the KTVU brand, but knowing how clumsy FTS is, my money's on everything being steamrollered with Fox everywhere within two years.

 

Oh, and don't be surprised to hear some movements in Seattle soon.