Samantha 2878 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Way to go NBC on reinforcing the stereotype that people on the coast have no clue about the interior of the US. Usually it's the stations themselves that are trying to force this but it sounds like that KSL was caught off guard just like everyone else is and at least they are trying to make an effort to fix things. The only reason I can think of as to why Elko County, NV is part of the SLC DMA is because there is a town on the border with Utah that consists of casinos and resorts that cater to people from Utah (West Wendover), so because that town does so much business with Utah (to the point that it decided to become a part of the Mountain Time Zone rather than the Pacific Time Zone like the rest of the state) it does make since that it would get it's TV from SLC. Elko on the other hand is the county seat and is 110 miles from West Wendover and clearly doesn't do as much business with Utah. This just shows how different one side of a county can be compared to the other side, especially when they are such as large as they tend to be out West. It's been in that DMA at least 30 years, too. It no longer makes any sense. It seems like everyone is losing in this scenario. -Television viewers in Elko lose the only local TV program in their area. At some point, this was going to happen for cost-saving reasons. They also lose one of three potential sources of Nevada news and information. Additionally, since Comet is already available, additional program duplication results. -NBC faces the potential of losing over-the-air coverage in Elko and surrounding areas during a critical time for their ratings (Super Bowl, Olympics) if service cannot be restored. -The TV district, which was prepared to put KRNV on a translator with near immediate effect, now must wait on everyone else. -KSL has to spend time and money servicing this small portion of the DMA and feeding the translator districts that NBC is asking it to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1678 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 -NBC faces the potential of losing over-the-air coverage in Elko and surrounding areas during a critical time for their ratings (Super Bowl, Olympics) if service cannot be restored. -The TV district, which was prepared to put KRNV on a translator with near immediate effect, now must wait on everyone else. -KSL has to spend time and money servicing this small portion of the DMA and feeding the translator districts that NBC is asking it to serve. The article you previously linked to in the Elko Daily said that the timeframe to change to KSL could take “three weeks to several months.” In that case and I were KSL I would be pushing NBC to pay for part of the upgrades in order for the translators to receive programming. NBC has numerous satellite transponders I am sure they could easily afford to “loan” one to KSL to give the translator district time to set up a conventional path. I also believe Bonneville International has some transponder space that could be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eat News 4738 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Way to go NBC on reinforcing the stereotype that people on the coast have no clue about the interior of the US. Usually it's the stations themselves that are trying to force this but it sounds like that KSL was caught off guard just like everyone else is and at least they are trying to make an effort to fix things. This just shows how different one side of a county can be compared to the other side, especially when they are such as large as they tend to be out West. I say you let the people of Elko decide what NBC station they get on the feed... And if NBC don't like it... Dare NBC engineers to come to town and change it themselves... Do they still have a "Hanging Tree" in the town square? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre29 1340 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Could a deal have been worked out that would allow KENV to continue as a semi-satellite of KSL, airing all of the same programming but with KENV's newscasts and local ads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvcg66b3r 97 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Could a deal have been worked out that would allow KENV to continue as a semi-satellite of KSL, airing all of the same programming but with KENV's newscasts and local ads? No, because KSL and KENV have different owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I say you let the people of Elko decide what NBC station they get on the feed... And if NBC don't like it... Dare NBC engineers to come to town and change it themselves... Do they still have a "Hanging Tree" in the town square? I actually agree with you. If NBC is so gung-ho on Elko getting their network via KSL, then they should help chip in on the cost of making that happen. Bonneville (KSL) is probably just as annoyed with this cluster as everyone else is who isn't NBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 No, because KSL and KENV have different owners. And especially since Sinclair owns competing stations in Salt Lake City. Sinclair could also have considered selling KENV to Bonneville, but I guess that was off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 And especially since Sinclair owns competing stations in Salt Lake City. Sinclair could also have considered selling KENV to Bonneville, but I guess that was off the table. Would Bonneville even want it? Considering it covers a part of the market that's an after thought to not just KSL but every other station in the SLC market (pretty much anyplace outside of the Wasatch Valley and St. George falls in that category), I imagine that they figured the cost of maintaining KENV far out-weighted any benefit in fixing the coverage gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Well, it's the final couple of hours for KENV's NBC programming... I hadn't seen these but these photos of Lori Gilbert delivering the final KENV newscast illustrate the set the station used (not often seen: the bottom Where News Comes First text, straight out of the early 2000s Sunbelt design playbook!). Apparently News 10 was pre-taped the day before. For KSL, the Elko TV District and any other translator districts serving Elko and White Pine Counties, the race is now on to pipe KSL's signal from Salt Lake to Elko. For everyone else, it's time to read the La Plata County television playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eat News 4738 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Well, it's the final couple of hours for KENV's NBC programming... I hadn't seen these but these photos of Lori Gilbert delivering the final KENV newscast illustrate the set the station used (not often seen: the bottom Where News Comes First text, straight out of the early 2000s Sunbelt design playbook!). Apparently News 10 was pre-taped the day before. For KSL, the Elko TV District and any other translator districts serving Elko and White Pine Counties, the race is now on to pipe KSL's signal from Salt Lake to Elko. For everyone else, it's time to read the La Plata County television playbook. And once the cable is laid...some olde tyme men with handlebar mustaches will connect the golden BNC connector....and TV will travel thru copper wires. One day we shall fly thru the air like birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On Thursday night at 6pm Pacific, the Elko Television District will hold its monthly meeting. The first item on the agenda pertains to KSL. The meeting can be live streamed from the Elko County website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Another development of potential interest...you now can read the letter the NBC Television Network sent from on high—I mean New York—to the Elko Television District. It is signed by Jean M. Dietze, the President of Affiliate Relations for NBC, and reads as follows: "It is our understanding that the Elko County Television District manages free television to the greater Elko District and has been transmitting Station KENV to Elko County. KENV rebroadcasts the NBC programming presented on Station KRNV. KRNV is assigned to the Reno, NV, Designated Market Area ("DMA") as defined by Nielsen. Please be advised that effective 5:00 A.M. Pacific Standard Time on January 1, 2018, KENV will no longer include the NBC programming or brand. At that time, Station KSL-TV will be the only NBC affiliate in Elko County authorized to carry the NBC programming and brand. This is because Elko County is assigned to the Salt Lake City DMA. For the avoidance of doubt, neither KENV nor KRNV/Reno wilI be authorized to broadcast NBC Programming in Elko County as of January 1, 2018. We look forward to your cooperation in this matter and to continuing to serve the residents of Elko County with NBC programming." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleachian 128 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 This is just bizarre. NBC had their own reasons for stripping the affiliation of WMGM and WHAG but what do they stand to gain here? Who cares? It does not appear KSL cared so why did NBC get their panties in a bunch about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webovision 202 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 This is just bizarre. NBC had their own reasons for stripping the affiliation of WMGM and WHAG but what do they stand to gain here? Who cares? It does not appear KSL cared so why did NBC get their panties in a bunch about this? maybe.. it's a preemptive strike... sorry... speculated all over the general forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 This is just bizarre. NBC had their own reasons for stripping the affiliation of WMGM and WHAG but what do they stand to gain here? Who cares? It does not appear KSL cared so why did NBC get their panties in a bunch about this? I think that's one of the hidden questions. The network has no self-interest here. In fact, they *lose* viewers for a month. Someone at the network has a DMA map of the country somewhere, realized Elko was in the Salt Lake City DMA, and probably told Sinclair "yeah, we can't do that". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleachian 128 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I think that's one of the hidden questions. The network has no self-interest here. In fact, they *lose* viewers for a month. Someone at the network has a DMA map of the country somewhere, realized Elko was in the Salt Lake City DMA, and probably told Sinclair "yeah, we can't do that". I can even see them telling Sinclair why KENV can’t continue on as an affiliate. But I still don’t get why they’re going after the translator district. I guess whoever it is at the network with the DMA map is apparently trying to prove their job is still worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I can even see them telling Sinclair why KENV can’t continue on as an affiliate. But I still don’t get why they’re going after the translator district. I guess whoever it is at the network with the DMA map is apparently trying to prove their job is still worthwhile. The NBC network is not in its right to dictate DMA maps to a translator district, though the FCC does give them recognition. What the Elko Television District wants to do is perfectly legal — in fact, they're doing it on a number of their other transmitters. Nothing in the rules says the station being retransmitted must be in the same DMA, only that it must grant permission to the television district. I've spent a lot of time here talking about translators making DMAs fuzzy on the edges, so I'm not going to go into much more detail, but earlier I mentioned the KVOA translators in eastern Arizona and western New Mexico, in locations not in the Tucson DMA. Fighting the network won't get Elko anywhere, and the idea of a "dual DMA" subverts the entire reason for the existence of DMAs (they are mutually exclusive) and won't fly with Nielsen. The best course of action is probably a STELA waiver, though that doesn't change the TV district's problems. (Arguably, it's better, as people that have satellite would be in a position to receive the Reno stations.) ——— I want to take a brief aside and look at the other community of size in the Nevada portion of the SLC DMA. It's Ely, the seat of White Pine County. Those familiar with the IWCC satellites might remember KVNV — today's WJLP — was set up there. Unlike in Elko, Ely sits more at a tripoint and receives Reno, SLC and Las Vegas TV. (In the case of one network, all three at once!) The White Pine Television District provides the broadcast service to this area. From Squaw Peak, retransmissions are offered of a stunning three CBS affiliates (KTVN, KLAS and KUTV all feed Ely!), as well as two ABC affiliates (KOLO and KTVX), two Fox affiliates (both in Nevada - KVVU and KRXI), KLVX for PBS, and KSL for NBC. (It also operates a translator for KSFI, from Salt Lake City.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre29 1340 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 From Squaw Peak, retransmissions are offered of a stunning three CBS affiliates (KTVN, KLAS and KUTV all feed Ely!) Please tell me those three are collectively known as the Three-Eyed Monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I think that's one of the hidden questions. The network has no self-interest here. In fact, they *lose* viewers for a month. Someone at the network has a DMA map of the country somewhere, realized Elko was in the Salt Lake City DMA, and probably told Sinclair "yeah, we can't do that". Pretty much. It just shows how clueless network executives are about the parts of the country not on the coasts. Like you said, someone probably saw that Elko was in the SLC market and decided that Elko needs to watch NBC via KSL even though it's not that easy for people in Elko to do so. Somehow the other networks have managed this with no problem but it is quite sad that it seems like that people on here have a better knowledge of markets like SLC than the suits at NBC do. Another thing is how idiotic that the Eastern half of Nevada is in a market whose main city is in a completely different time zone. I do get that geographically Elko is closer to SLC than Reno. However, St. George is much closer to Las Vegas than SLC and yet they get their channels from SLC because they're in the same state and time zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 The SVP Business Affairs and General Counsel for Bonneville International showed up in Elko tonight for the most-attended Elko TV District meeting in years. He brought with him the general manager of KSL-TV, the corporate director of engineering, and KSL-TV's chief engineer. KSL disavowed any relation to the NBC network decision to not renew the KENV affiliation. Only three years ago, KSL rediscovered KENV! This is when they went around and contacted the MVPDs in the DMA, and they contacted Satview in Elko. Satview pointed out that KSL was not needed, and KSL was shocked. As they followed up, they called NBC and asked if they knew anything... the head of affiliate relations had to go looking in the files! Since the end of the contract was 2017, they kind of cast the issue aside. KSL was asked at the time of their own renewal whether they consented to KENV's affiliation. They said they had never been asked before, and that they would not consent to a renewal. (Similarly, KSL was shocked to hear that KENV's local operation was not continued, potentially with a combo with KUTV.) In response to NBC's letter, KSL said that they would gladly return to Elko, though they've had to work through the logistics of getting the signal to eastern Nevada; by tomorrow or Monday, they will be able to get KSL's signal into the Elko area. This will be the first time that KSL has been seen since the end of 1997, a few months after KENV was turned on. (KSL remained on the local cable system until KENV invoked network non-duplication a year or two later.) The pickup was a 165-mile hop from KSL's transmitter to the Peavey site, then either off-air pickup or in-UHF relay to two other sites. When KENV signed on, KTVN was put onto KSL's old frequencies, as the new station displaced the KTVN translator on channel 10. Elko TV District proposed that KSL pay for the IPTV link, given that the budget year was already concluded; the station has proposed to pay for half of the link, saying that this would be above and beyond their minimum obligation. Additionally, KSL has approved advancing the district's payment for the signal delivery path, and the TV district and KSL have the encoders ready to send the signal. (KSL sent Elko the decoders from Sweden in two days!) The loop could also be used to deliver other program services from Salt Lake City. The Lamoille site could be brought on first (and if all goes well, very soon), but at the other sites, it will take a little more time to reconfigure equipment. "We believe that this is an important community", the general manager stated, noting that KSL had no idea it hadn't been in Elko. A former board member quipped that someone might have been behind the 8-ball on KSL knowing which translators it had, and wondering how KSL never looked to see why they didn't have a request from Elko in the last two decades. He also slammed the SLC stations in general for barely putting Elko on their weather maps. Lori Gilbert appeared to explain what exactly KENV did to the KSL executives. She explained that if KRNV had been replaced with KUTV as KENV's primary program source, it would have created a discordant mission. Fun fact: KUWB purchased the translators and backbone equipment to get their signal into Elko in the mid-late 90s and even supported the TV district with legal costs! Fun fact 2: According to the SVP, Bonneville is "not particularly thrilled to be in the television business"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre29 1340 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Fun fact 2: According to the SVP, Bonneville is "not particularly thrilled to be in the television business"! Innnnnnnnnnteresting. Could their bosses in the LDS church be blocking any attempts to sell the station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Innnnnnnnnnteresting. Could their bosses in the LDS church be blocking any attempts to sell the station? I have no clue, and I don't want to delve into speculation on that front. Many of the local comments wanted KSL to have some local connection and grumbled about the loss of local and Nevada news. (Honestly, many grumblings were out of KSL's control.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJClementeFan69 477 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 What's bizarre about this whole thing is -- why did NBC care so much about this? The WMGM, WHAG situations are sucky, but understandable. Those stations siphoned off viewers from their O&Os. If KSL doesn't care, why does NBC care what station people in BFE Elko, Nevada get their network's programming on? This whole thing is bizarre and capricious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 What's bizarre about this whole thing is -- why did NBC care so much about this? The WMGM, WHAG situations are sucky, but understandable. Those stations siphoned off viewers from their O&Os. If KSL doesn't care, why does NBC care what station people in BFE Elko, Nevada get their network's programming on? This whole thing is bizarre and capricious. It looks like this is what happened, at least from what we learned tonight. KENV was kind of...forgotten about by everyone and went on doing its thing. KSL stumbled upon KENV again in 2014/15 when they went to all the MVPDs in the Salt Lake DMA. The Elko one told them about KENV, and they kind of scratched their heads. When KSL finally got information back from NBC, whose head of affiliate relations had to go into the files to learn about KENV, they figured that the term of the affiliation agreement was not much longer for this world and they wouldn't do anything. KSL would have been required to consent to a renewal of the NBC affiliation, and they never would have consented to it in the first place to protect their DMA (which is understandable). KSL had to go to great lengths here to paint itself as not the villain, and I don't think it is. When they rediscovered that KENV existed, according to this account, they were OK with coexisting for the rest of the agreement (about three years), but not any longer. They did not attempt to pull the plug prematurely. The problem here is that this situation, and the fact that KSL is essentially replacing KENV after discovering the "lost" service in their DMA and with the end of the affiliation agreement, coincides with two losses for Elko. The first would have happened at some point, the loss of the local programming. The second, and one dependent more on the DMA classification, is the loss of a source of Nevada news and information — aka all those KRNV news programs seen on the semi-satellite. It also means that NBC programs are now seen on Mountain Time in Elko — two hours earlier. With ABC, viewers can choose KTVX or KOLO. There is no choice here. Try watching prime time shows at 6 at night when you're used to them starting at 8! The Elko people float the idea of a "dual DMA", which honestly makes a lot of sense given historical broadcast patterns (and if implemented nationally would be a godsend to orphan counties where every orphan county would be co-assigned to a nearby in-state DMA), but the problem is that DMAs are mutually exclusive entities, and I don't know how receptive Nielsen will be even to redrawing the DMA. Look at Nielsen's DMA definition: DMA® region: Generally a group of counties in which the commercial TV stations in the Metro/Central area achieve the largest audience share. This is non-overlapping geography for planning, buying and evaluating television audiences across various markets. See the Local Reference Supplement for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1678 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 KSL disavowed any relation to the NBC network decision to not renew the KENV affiliation. Only three years ago, KSL rediscovered KENV! This is when they went around and contacted the MVPDs in the DMA, and they contacted Satview in Elko. Satview pointed out that KSL was not needed, and KSL was shocked. As they followed up, they called NBC and asked if they knew anything... the head of affiliate relations had to go looking in the files! I don’t buy that. Every three years a station has to file for retransmission consent with MVPD providers so they have to had to know about KENV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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