scrabbleship 427 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 It was just a combo of other plans and really bad luck for CBS- it had a lot of that during the Tisch years, though by 1997-98 they seemed to have shook it off. The timing of losing the NFC to Fox alongside the launches of UPN and The WB did them no favors. If the mass defection of affiliates happened a couple years earlier before the netlet race began, CBS ends up with a much better selection of new affiliates. In some cases (Milwaukee) a few extra months would've helped (Gaylord would've bundled WVTV with KTVT/KSTW if WITI's affiliation expired alongside KDFW's). Specifically in the case of Detroit, even one year prior their odds to get WKBD as an affiliate increase since there is no way Cox would've said no to affiliating with CBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVNewsLover 728 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 And WWJ-TV 62 has tried a newscast before. Three times, as a matter of fact. WXYZ even produced a newscast for them once. All attempts were dismal failures. I think you're mixing up WKBD and WWJ a bit. The WXYZ-produced newscast was for WKBD, not WWJ. I'm also not sure about the three times thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaking News 802 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I think you're mixing up WKBD and WWJ a bit. The WXYZ-produced newscast was for WKBD, not WWJ. I'm also not sure about the three times thing either. Yeah, WXYZ produced WKBD's news at 10pm, but 7 never produce a newscast for 62/CBS. Scripps and WXYZ were tied to ABC via a group-wide affiliation pact, the repercussions of which ultimately led to Group W's group-wide CBS affiliation pact, then Group W simply bought CBS. Post-Newsweek and WDIV were tied to NBC. WXON was a charter WB affiliate and didn't want to give it up. WKBD was owned by Paramount TV and was a de facto UPN O&O in the wake of losing their Fox affiliation. Didn't want to sell. That left WADL 38 and WGPR 62, and no one had ever heard of WGPR. Kevin Adell absolutely refused to sell WADL, so CBS had to buy WGPR by default. It was either that or pipe in WTOL's signal via cable. And WWJ-TV 62 has tried a newscast before. Three times, as a matter of fact. WXYZ even produced a newscast for them once. All attempts were dismal failures. CBS wanted WXYZ/Detroit & WEWS/Cleveland. Scripps went to ABC in order to keep Channels 7 & 5 as ABC affiliations switches needed to happen in Baltimore, Cincinnati, Tampa & Phoenix . If Cox had kept WKBD I wonder if CBS would have moved to 50 with an already established news department. 20, 38 never gave a reason why they didn't want the CBS affiliation? If it was $$$ to pump into the station or creating a newscast. I wonder would CBS sell 50/62 to Sinclair to get a news operation going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVNewsLover 728 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yeah, WXYZ produced WKBD's news at 10pm, but 7 never produce a newscast for 62/CBS. CBS wanted WXYZ/Detroit & WEWS/Cleveland. Scripps went to ABC in order to keep Channels 7 & 5 as ABC affiliations switches needed to happen in Baltimore, Cincinnati, Tampa & Phoenix . If Cox had kept WKBD I wonder if CBS would have moved to 50 with an already established news department. 20, 38 never gave a reason why they didn't want the CBS affiliation? If it was $$$ to pump into the station or creating a newscast. I wonder would CBS sell 50/62 to Sinclair to get a news operation going? I have a feeling Sinclair would keep them as is. See KDNL in St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaking News 802 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Why do so many CBS O&Os struggle in local news? Sure, there are some stations that do well (i.e. WCCO, WJZ). Is it the network's last-place national newscasts? They've been struggling for a while, but I thought Les Mooves & Company place their own stamp of getting better a decade ago. KCBS, WCBS seem to be better today vs. 10-15 years ago. WBBM no bueno. WCCO has always been tops in MSP along with KDKA, WJZ, KCNC, but CBS has invested in KTVT and wish they would do the same with WWJ/Detroit. Detroit is treated like a red headed step-child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesapeakeTV 310 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They treat WWJ like a red-headed step-child because that's pretty much exactly what it is vs. WKBD when you come down to it. I'm amazed they register as a blip in the ratings in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVNewsLover 728 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They've been struggling for a while, but I thought Les Mooves & Company place their own stamp of getting better a decade ago. KCBS, WCBS seem to be better today vs. 10-15 years ago. WBBM no bueno. WCCO has always been tops in MSP along with KDKA, WJZ, KCNC, but CBS has invested in KTVT and wish they would do the same with WWJ/Detroit. Detroit is treated like a red headed step-child. KYW saw a resurgence during the Mendte/Lane era. After that debacle, they fell back to a distant third, but now seem to be trying again to move up. As for Detroit, only way that's fixable at this point is for CBS to get WJBK from FOX which has close to 0% chance of happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardek1995 200 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 KYW saw a resurgence during the Mendte/Lane era. After that debacle, they fell back to a distant third, but now seem to be trying again to move up. As for Detroit, only way that's fixable at this point is for CBS to get WJBK from FOX which has close to 0% chance of happening. Or sell WWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaking News 802 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 KYW saw a resurgence during the Mendte/Lane era. After that debacle, they fell back to a distant third, but now seem to be trying again to move up. As for Detroit, only way that's fixable at this point is for CBS to get WJBK from FOX which has close to 0% chance of happening. Oh I forgot about KYW, but they were #2 under Mendte/Lane, but with CBS struggles in certain markets. NBC has it own issues as well in NYC, Philly, Miami. Your right about Detroit, but it a sad state for being owned by CBS and don't have a news operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardek1995 200 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Oh I forgot about KYW, but they were #2 under Mendte/Lane, but with CBS struggles in certain markets. NBC has it own issues as well in NYC, Philly, Miami. Your right about Detroit, but it a sad state for being owned by CBS and don't have a news operation. I really think CBS should invest in a news department for WWJ (besides just weather updates), or if not that, then they should sell it. They should also consider investing in news departments for its standalone CW O&O stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVNewsLover 728 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I really think CBS should invest in a news department for WWJ (besides just weather updates), or if not that, then they should sell it. They should also consider investing in news departments for its standalone CW O&O stations. I'm not sure I see the benefit of CBS retaining the standalone CW O&O stations (Atlanta, Seattle, Tampa), let alone investing in news departments!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They treat WWJ like a red-headed step-child because that's pretty much exactly what it is vs. WKBD when you come down to it. I'm amazed they register as a blip in the ratings in Detroit. Way more than a blip... They outdraw DIV and XYZ in primetime at times.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianpr3 173 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 i see cbs has an O&O in sacremento?! they should sell that one what's the point in having that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4168 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I really think CBS should invest in a news department for WWJ (besides just weather updates), or if not that, then they should sell it. They should also consider investing in news departments for its standalone CW O&O stations. Why should CBS sell channel 62? Because they don't have any newscasts in a market that can't support a fourth television news department? Look. Viewers in an older, shrinking market like Detroit are extremely loyal to either 2, 4 or 7. Regardless of who owns channel 62, any attempt to front a news department will be a dismal failure because no one will tune in. Period. They've tried twice already, the latter of which was a no-frills morning show in collaboration with WWJ 950. It doesn't work. IT WON'T WORK. What is a more realistic option for CBS... operating a station like channel 62 with no newscasts but having minimal expenses, decent ratings and turning a profit... versus operating channel 62 with a fully staffed news department with non-existent ratings and bleeds red ink until the cows come home? Furthermore, who would realistically want to buy the station? I ask this with all seriousness. Arguing about channel 62 is an exercise in futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4168 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 i see cbs has an O&O in sacremento?! they should sell that one what's the point in having that one? KOVR is one half of a CBS/CW duopoly in the California state capital. And there is a lot of synergy between them and KPIX/KBCW in San Francisco. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardek1995 200 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Why should CBS sell channel 62? Because they don't have any newscasts in a market that can't support a fourth television news department? Look. Viewers in an older, shrinking market like Detroit are extremely loyal to either 2, 4 or 7. Regardless of who owns channel 62, any attempt to front a news department will be a dismal failure because no one will tune in. Period. They've tried twice already, the latter of which was a no-frills morning show in collaboration with WWJ 950. It doesn't work. IT WON'T WORK. What is a more realistic option for CBS... operating a station like channel 62 with no newscasts but having minimal expenses, decent ratings and turning a profit... versus operating channel 62 with a fully staffed news department with non-existent ratings and bleeds red ink until the cows come home? Furthermore, who would realistically want to buy the station? I ask this with all seriousness. Arguing about channel 62 is an exercise in futility. Are you suggesting that CBS 62 is fine as is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4168 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Are you suggesting that CBS 62 is fine as is? Channel 62 gets decent ratings and turns a profit with minimal expenses. So yes, they are doing as well as can be expected. A news operation on channel 62 just won't work, regardless of who owns the station. It's the cold truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrschimpf 2063 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Channel 62 gets decent ratings and turns a profit with minimal expenses. So yes, they are doing as well as can be expected. A news operation on channel 62 just won't work, regardless of who owns the station. It's the cold truth. WDIV, WXYZ and WJBK are just way too established for WWJ to do anything. This isn't really the current CBS era's fault, but the penny-pinching Viacom of 2002 who made the call to shut down a fine WKBD news op. With the CBC also having some involvement in the Detroit market it's the same situation as Buffalo where WUTV took forever to at least grab WGRZ's 10pm show; why bother to start a new news operation when you have US and Canadian news operations (including with Hamilton, CHCH being near all-day) flanking you and doing just fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 WDIV, WXYZ and WJBK are just way too established for WWJ to do anything. This isn't really the current CBS era's fault, but the penny-pinching Viacom of 2002 who made the call to shut down a fine WKBD news op. With the CBC also having some involvement in the Detroit market it's the same situation as Buffalo where WUTV took forever to at least grab WGRZ's 10pm show; why bother to start a new news operation when you have US and Canadian news operations (including with Hamilton, CHCH being near all-day) flanking you and doing just fine? Making matters worse the market can barely support 3 operations at this point... XYZ barely registers with anyone in the demos which means unless they fix their woes soon their overalls will collapse soon. JBK is the king right now around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardek1995 200 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Making matters worse the market can barely support 3 operations at this point... XYZ barely registers with anyone in the demos which means unless they fix their woes soon their overalls will collapse soon. JBK is the king right now around here. I'm guessing part of that has to do with the popularity of the Simpsons in southeast Michigan as well as all the other markets where New World switched affiliations for its stations to Fox as well as their strong news department. As for WWJ, it didn't help that nobody wanted CBS in Detroit (except WGPR, but even then, they didn't want it to be owned by CBS itself as they feared losing a voice) seeing as how it could no longer broadcast the Lions among other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius22 120 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 KOVR is one half of a CBS/CW duopoly in the California state capital. And there is a lot of synergy between them and KPIX/KBCW in San Francisco. Good grief. KOVR and KMAX are very popular here as O&Os. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardek1995 200 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 KOVR and KMAX are very popular here as O&Os. As is CBS 11 here in DFW, KPIX in San Francisco, and CBS 4 in Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm guessing part of that has to do with the popularity of the Simpsons in southeast Michigan as well as all the other markets where New World switched affiliations for its stations to Fox as well as their strong news department. As for WWJ, it didn't help that nobody wanted CBS in Detroit (except WGPR, but even then, they didn't want it to be owned by CBS itself as they feared losing a voice) seeing as how it could no longer broadcast the Lions among other reasons. No the Simpsons aren't why... It's a very recent development and mostly comes from XYZ retiring legacy talent and weakened ABC and NBC programming. JBK and it's actually weak newsroom was an afterthought until 2007 or so. WWJ never full time broadcast the Lions anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius22 120 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No the Simpsons aren't why... It's a very recent development and mostly comes from XYZ retiring legacy talent and weakened ABC and NBC programming. JBK and it's actually weak newsroom was an afterthought until 2007 or so. WWJ never full time broadcast the Lions anyways... actually for some reason it kinda does in the Saginaw/Flint area. i remember in 2004-2005 the simpsons would come on 2 stations in detroit but 3 in Saginaw/Flint. not sure why. only one is not affiliated with FOX and syndicates (When they were UPN now CW.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhratbrat 423 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Myron makes a brilliant point and it is that WWJ is easily making money for CBS. Plain and simple. Hardly any employees at the station (which would be your biggest cost at any other place) and keeping it low in a rapidly declining metro area. (Detroit will someday be further down than they are now) So, it is easier for CBS to keep them and program and they have found a way to make money. When you are the number one network, it is a lot easier to make money without a news operation than it is to make money with a news operation that will lose you money off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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