Boston TV crisis: WHDH and WNEU

[mardek1995 200]

Well NBC better come up with something. If I remember correctly CBS saw themselves in this predicament in SEVERAL markets back in 1994. They were able to get through it, but in places like Detroit where they waited until the last minute to make a move, they ended up with WWJ...

 

NBC, learn from CBS' mistake. Don't end up with a WWJ.

CBS didn't wait to the last minute. They actually tried to get an affiliation with several stations, but none (not even WKBD) wanted to affiliate with them except WGPR, then CBS bought it (much to the dismay of the station's owners) and changed the call letters to the current WWJ. So really, CBS didn't have much of a choice besides not buying WGPR. NBC in Boston however, has an opportunity to make a compromise with Ed Ansin so that they will have more of a choice.

[scrabbleship 427]

CBS didn't wait to the last minute. They actually tried to get an affiliation with several stations, but none (not even WKBD) wanted to affiliate with them except WGPR, then CBS bought it (much to the dismay of the station's owners) and changed the call letters to the current WWJ. So really, CBS didn't have much of a choice besides not buying WGPR.

 

The pending launches of UPN and The WB hurt bad in Detroit because if this happened at any time earlier or later CBS ends up on WKBD or WXON. The timing was awful there.

 

NBC in Boston however, has an opportunity to make a compromise with Ed Ansin so that they will have more of a choice.

 

The thing is does he want to compromise as well.

[TSSZNews 1047]

Why would Comcast moving channels around in their cable systems be legally questionable?

 

Serious question.

 

Serious answer:

 

Let's say OTA Channel 1000 is owned by a broadcasting company that's a generally independently run subdivision of Kabletown. Let's say Channel 1000 is, right now, on channel 1000 by the cable company that also happens to be a generally independently run subdivision of Kabletown and has 90% market penetration. Kabletown wants to prop up Channel 1000, so maybe they prop it up and move it to Channel 1--in the process moving a very popular local news channel that maybe actually is Channel 1 back to, say, channel 20, forcing viewer confusion, ultimately driving down the original Channel 1 operator's ratings, to the benefit of Kabletown crowing what was once Channel 1000 the new leader of the pack on the cable lineup.

 

I am no lawyer, but I think a good lawyer (probably one who works for the original Channel 1) could make a case to the FCC that's in violation of their acquisition terms. It's a big fear other broadcasters had when Comcast bought NBC--they would place prominence on NBCUni channels over others in the media marketplace and force non-Comcast entities to pay big. Comcast had to agree to a lot of things to buy NBC, and I can't remember if generally leaving their channel lineups alone was one of them...

 

(Edited to purge my collusion argument, which in retrospect seemed silly)

[Eat News 4738]

Serious answer:

 

Let's say OTA Channel 1000 is owned by a broadcasting company that's a generally independently run subdivision of Kabletown. Let's say Channel 1000 is, right now, on channel 1000 by the cable company that also happens to be a generally independently run subdivision of Kabletown and has 90% market penetration. Kabletown wants to prop up Channel 1000, so maybe they prop it up and move it to Channel 1--in the process moving a very popular local news channel that maybe actually is Channel 1 back to, say, channel 20, forcing viewer confusion, ultimately driving down the original Channel 1 operator's ratings, to the benefit of Kabletown crowing what was once Channel 1000 the new leader of the pack on the cable lineup.

 

I am no lawyer, but I think a good lawyer (probably one who works for the original Channel 1) could make a case to the FCC that's in violation of their acquisition terms. It's a big fear other broadcasters had when Comcast bought NBC--they would place prominence on NBCUni channels over others in the media marketplace and force non-Comcast entities to pay big. Comcast had to agree to a lot of things to buy NBC, and I can't remember if generally leaving their channel lineups alone was one of them...

 

(Edited to purge my collusion argument, which in retrospect seemed silly)

 

We already went through this back in the late 70's and 80's when it was considered golden to be on Ch-3 on cable systems. RF adapters and VCR's usually defaulted to Ch-3 (or 4) when you turned on the TV.

 

If you wanted that real estate (like ESPN did) you paid for it...or cut some other deal. I don't recall if CH-3 broadcasters were able to pull the "must carry" card in the respective markets.

 

Did KCRA or KEYT have to beg cable co's for the 3 slot...or did they just end up there "just because".

I don't know that answer.

[mre29 1362]

We already went through this back in the late 70's and 80's when it was considered golden to be on Ch-3 on cable systems. RF adapters and VCR's usually defaulted to Ch-3 (or 4) when you turned on the TV.

 

Well, that explains why we've had QVC on channel 3 ever since we got cable in '84...

[ToriElectra 291]

We used to have TBS on channel 3, until last year, when it was moved to 57. Nothing's there now (despite KYW's presence on the lineup, it's relegated to channel 256 and it's not HD).

[Samantha 2878]

The pending launches of UPN and The WB hurt bad in Detroit because if this happened at any time earlier or later CBS ends up on WKBD or WXON. The timing was awful there.

 

CBS tried to buy WXON but the ownership felt that CBS was undervaluing their station ($100m versus $200m). They also apparently tried to buy WKBD for the rumored price of $120m. WADL also turned them down for not offering a long enough agreement with appropriate compensation.

 

(As to cable here, channel 4 was HBO for the longest time, then WGN America. It's nothing now.)

[ABC 7 Denver 1600]

We used to have TBS on channel 3, until last year, when it was moved to 57. Nothing's there now (despite KYW's presence on the lineup, it's relegated to channel 256 and it's not HD).

 

Is that your market CBS station? Or is that channel somewhere in the first 20 line-up?

[rkolsen 1680]

His location says New Jersey so likely KYW unless he lives in the overlap region with WCBS?

Is that your market CBS station? Or is that channel somewhere in the first 20 line-up?

[ToriElectra 291]

His location says New Jersey so likely KYW unless he lives in the overlap region with WCBS?

Yep, I'm in the overlap region- near Hackettstown, so we mainly get NYC stations- the Philly stations, KYW, WCAU and WTXF (and yet no WPVI) are relegated to the 250s. So is WFMZ from Allentown, but we do get that in HD.

[TVNewsLover 730]

Yep, I'm in the overlap region- near Hackettstown, so we mainly get NYC stations- the Philly stations, KYW, WCAU and WTXF (and yet no WPVI) are relegated to the 250s. So is WFMZ from Allentown, but we do get that in HD.

Surprised you still get Philly stations. The Lehigh Valley area cable systems used to carry all the Philly stations, all the NYC stations, and all the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre stations. They stopped carrying all the S/W-B stations over 15 years ago, and half of the NYC stations disappeared around the same time (2,7,&4 disappeared in that order, 5 & 11 have moved to higher channel numbers, while 9 is still on a single digit channel).

[ToriElectra 291]

Surprised you still get Philly stations. The Lehigh Valley area cable systems used to carry all the Philly stations, all the NYC stations, and all the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre stations. They stopped carrying all the S/W-B stations over 15 years ago, and half of the NYC stations disappeared around the same time (2,7,&4 disappeared in that order, 5 & 11 have moved to higher channel numbers, while 9 is still on a single digit channel).

Yeah, Comcast of Port Murray was once a Storer Cable system I think, so it might be left over from that. It's kinda weird- last Comcast system before the Lehigh Valley, and you won't find another system going down that way until the outer Philly suburbs I think- and it's isloated from the rest of Northern NJ's Comcast by Cablevision. It's like an island.

[johnothy 43]

How is NBC Boston generic? Generic would be Channel 5 news, etc. But you can't get anymore "Local" or associated with the community you cover than having the city name in your branding

 

NBC Boston is generic like some cable channel. It doesn't tell you a channel number or call letters to identify the station. If that's the branding, they might as well just be a cable channel with local inserts depending on the region. Some stations that have changed or lost affiliations are able to do well because of their local branding that stands alone from their network affiliation.

[A3N 996]

NBC Boston is generic like some cable channel. It doesn't tell you a channel number or call letters to identify the station. If that's the branding, they might as well just be a cable channel with local inserts depending on the region. Some stations that have changed or lost affiliations are able to do well because of their local branding that stands alone from their network affiliation.

No it's not. NBC Boston [News] is exclusive to the Boston DMA. You will not find that branding being used outside of that area. Whether you like them using NBC Boston is beside the point. Identifying as NBC (by itself), Channel 7, etc. would be generic. Why? because there is NO tie in to the community and there are many stations using Channel [insert channel number] News across the country.

 

Also, OTA, WNEU (Soon to be NBC Boston) is on channel 60, it's on channel 19 on Comcast. I can guarantee that they're going to at the very least try and move that channel up closer to the other local channels come time to launch. So, it makes zero sense to brand the station with a number, when that number varies across different platforms.

[CircleSeven 1945]

The Boston Business Journal states that Comcast is trying to throw out Ansin's lawsuit.

[TVNewsLover 730]

The Boston Business Journal states that Comcast is trying to throw out Ansin's lawsuit.

Ansin's best bet is to negotiate some kind of settlement with NBC. While his suit may have some merit, I believe that NBC in the end will have the upper hand. It's in the best interest of both parties to meet in the middle.

 

With WHDH's pending loss of the NBC affiliation, and the potential of WLVI losing the CW affiliation to WSBK, Ansin may be left with two stations and no affiliations (MyNetTV doesn't count in my opinion). I just don't see one news-intensive station being successful in Boston, let alone two.

[TheRolyPoly 1847]

Ansin's best bet is to negotiate some kind of settlement with NBC. While his suit may have some merit, I believe that NBC in the end will have the upper hand. It's in the best interest of both parties to meet in the middle.

 

With WHDH's pending loss of the NBC affiliation, and the potential of WLVI losing the CW affiliation to WSBK, Ansin may be left with two stations and no affiliations (MyNetTV doesn't count in my opinion). I just don't see one news-intensive station being successful in Boston, let alone two.

 

If anything, CW goes to WSBK, MyTV goes to some other station and both WHDH and WLVI are stuck as Independents. I don't see Sunbeam signing either one for the MyTV affiliation.

[scrabbleship 427]

With WHDH's pending loss of the NBC affiliation, and the potential of WLVI losing the CW affiliation to WSBK, Ansin may be left with two stations and no affiliations (MyNetTV doesn't count in my opinion). I just don't see one news-intensive station being successful in Boston, let alone two.

 

Not to mention that there is a lack of programming inventory between the two stations to support schedules at both. Though some syndicated programming could be had (lesser sitcoms on WSBK/WBIN, Rachael Ray, Inside Edition once WCVB decides to do a full hour at 4:00), even then they could barely program two stations. That might be curtains for Sunbeam because it is a situation that KTVK, KRON, WJXT, WISH, even WCCB never had to face.

 

If anything, CW goes to WSBK, MyTV goes to some other station and both WHDH and WLVI are stuck as Independents. I don't see Sunbeam signing either one for the MyTV affiliation.

 

Where else could MyTV really go? Back to WBIN? To a .2 of WCVB with MeTV going to 5.3?

[TheRolyPoly 1847]

Where else could MyTV really go? Back to WBIN? To a .2 of WCVB with MeTV going to 5.3?

 

Imagine if WCVB did get the MyTV affiliation or if the MyTV affiliation goes back to WBIN with their current NH1 News department.

[justin2kx 229]

what about another possibility since syndication shortage arises: WHDH could be a CW affiliate and put WLVI on the auction or consolidate the duopoly while be news intensive for 7. Leave 'SBK out of the CW talk.

[TVNewsLover 730]

what about another possibility since syndication shortage arises: WHDH could be a CW affiliate and put WLVI on the auction or consolidate the duopoly while be news intensive for 7. Leave 'SBK out of the CW talk.

I believe WLVI's affiliation agreement expires soon. It makes perfect sense for CBS/CW to put the CW on its own station. So it's got to be part of the conversation as a possibility.

[mre29 1362]

Also, OTA, WNEU (Soon to be NBC Boston) is on channel 60, it's on channel 19 on Comcast. I can guarantee that they're going to at the very least try and move that channel up closer to the other local channels come time to launch.

 

Just FYI, it's not on 19 on all Comcast systems in the Boston area. I get it on 14, for example (and the HD version on 716). And I wouldn't be surprised if it stays on 14, since the SD version of WFXT is on 25.

[mre29 1362]

Ansin's best bet is to negotiate some kind of settlement with NBC. While his suit may have some merit, I believe that NBC in the end will have the upper hand. It's in the best interest of both parties to meet in the middle.

 

And NBC's best bet is to negotiate something, and if that means also buying WLVI, well, hey, they'll have a better signal for Telemundo and can sell WNEU. Win!

[A3N 996]

Just FYI, it's not on 19 on all Comcast systems in the Boston area. I get it on 14, for example (and the HD version on 716). And I wouldn't be surprised if it stays on 14, since the SD version of WFXT is on 25.

We're talking about a Comcast/NBC owned and operated station on a Comcast cable system. They're going to place it in a beneficial spot on the channel lineup.

And NBC's best bet is to negotiate something, and if that means also buying WLVI, well, hey, they'll have a better signal for Telemundo and can sell WNEU. Win!

Ansin has already made it clear that WLVI isn't for sale. He bought the station from Tribune to keep NBC from purchasing at the time. I doubt he's going to try and do them any favors.

[mre29 1362]

We're talking about a Comcast/NBC owned and operated station on a Comcast cable system. They're going to place it in a beneficial spot on the channel lineup

 

Well, unless they want to bump the other major network affiliates, they could bump QVC (which has been on channel 3 since the '80s), WBIN (channel 6), or Ion (channel 9).

 

Ansin has already made it clear that WLVI isn't for sale. He bought the station from Tribune to keep NBC from purchasing at the time. I doubt he's going to try and do them any favors.

 

I seem to recall he said that any sale would have to include WLVI.