DirtyHarry 719 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Furthermore, a whole generation (literally) has grown up accustomed to WJW as a Fox station. It would be pointless to switch, and stupid even. That might be something new with CBS then, because they had no issue with WOIO LMA'ing WUAB from Steve "A-Team" Cannell, and then taking WUAB's "10 o'clock news" department as the backbone of WOIO's news department. The big reason to change is the poor OTA allocation WOIO got stuck with -- I think it's something like 9 kw on VHF 10. WJW technically could still go to UHF 31 - I don't know why they haven't done that yet. I'm in shock here. This amounts to a game changer in Indy and something to watch for as other mention in other AFC markets because it looks like CBS and Tribune may be doing that to pacify Tribune to keep their part of the CW in some form. I'll got deeper but I got to read up on the major effects here. Do you think this puts WTHR's affiliation in play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusNewsFan 217 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If they wanted to be in Indy so bad, then why did they sell WNDY to Lin? Back then it wasn't a issue but it has all changed since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Like what WJKS did? WJKS was different; it was already being run into the ground. Watch some of the 90s editions of "17 First Coast News" and be amazed at the quality gulf between 4/12 and then 17. Media General, which had just come into owning the station, was ready to put money into it and really improve it, but that happened a little too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.L. Hughes 751 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I read somewhere that the reason why Tribune didn't move the Fox affiliation from WXIN to WTTV when it bought the latter in 2004 was partly because of the fact that WTTV had a weaker signal in the northern part of the market and required WTTK to relay its signal there. So if that was true at that time (which I'm not sure of, but keep in mind that was when analog television was prominent), then, did this not play a factor in Tribune snaring the CBS affiliation for 'TTV? Also, are there any additional soundstages at WTTV/WXIN's Network Place studios that could house a set for the planned WTTV newscasts? Now, it's interesting to note that in an Indianapolis Business Journal article about the switch, the paper interviewed an agent who didn't believe that WTTV could launch local newscasts in just four months time. Rick Gevers, an Indianapolis-based agent who represents on-air television news talent, said launching a local newscast by January will be a tall order. “Getting everything in place in just four months would be, I’d say, almost impossible without at least initially leaning on WXIN,” Gevers said. Keep in mind, Tribune did restart KSWB's news department in about five months when it snagged the Fox affiliation from XETV in 2008. So Gevers is probably not familiar with that. But I'm pretty skeptical that WTTV and WXIN will have fully separate newscasts, or that WXIN won't get the short end of the stick here and keep all of the newscasts it has now. There hasn't been a Fox-Big Three duopoly where the two station carried separate newscasts that competed against one another in the same timeslots; the only major network duopolies that have carried separate, competing newscasts have been those involving two Big Three stations (some like, the shared operation of WTLV-WJXX, even simulcast newscasts). We'll see, but somehow I think WJW might end up being the sole titleholder of the most local news hours in the U.S. some time soon, unless they do an expanded-upon version of what is done with the morning newscasts on KDVR and KWGN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershock MN 169 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 WOW. Well, This is a shot across the bow by Les Moonves and CBS. This is clearly being done to send a message to LIN (and any other station group) that balks at CBS' reverse compensation demands. And, they went straight for the heart by sticking a dagger WISH. In doing so they sent a symbolic message to all their affiliates..."Don't fuck with us." LIN decided to play hardball and lost big time. And, Tribune was in the right place at the right time. Although this might strain LIN/MG's and CBS' relationship going forward I fully expect them to give in to CBS's demands and re-up the remaining stations As to any possible future switches (ie:KPLR->ABC) it's possible I suppose. Tribune might make a run at it but, if ABC is still getting "fair" reverse compensation from Sinclair/KNDL then nothing is likely going to change. Look at it this way if LIN/ WISH gave into paying CBS what they felt was fair reverse compensation then none of this would be happening in Indy. It's pretty obvious that if you own a CBS affiliate in an AFC market, and your affiliation agreement renewal is coming up, get ready for a shakedown. Lin/Media General better watch their back in Buffalo. ^FIFY. The market doesn't matter. CBS feels they have "premium" content and therefore feels entitled to "premium" reverse compensation. If a station owner doesn't want to get on board AFC market, NFC market or otherwise with paying CBS what they feel is "fair" reverse compensation they are now rolling the dice. This this is a clear sign CBS will explore other opportunities in that situation and if they find a willing partner pull the trigger. I actually would be shocked if that happened, because all signs point to "Fox 8" and "CBS 19" remaining that way for a long, long time. Besides, the reason WHY it cannot happen is very simple: WJW is still in the middle of a long-term affiliation pact with Fox. They are required to be a Fox affiliate until 2017 with a VERY favorable reverse-compensation arrangement (I believe it is at or near ZERO reverse-compensation). Why give that up? Correct. the old Local TV,LLC Fox affiliates pay ZERO in reverse comp to the network. Which is exactly why a switch involving WJW would never happen...well at least until 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 As to any possible future switches (ie:KPLR->ABC) it's possible I suppose. Tribune might make a run at it but, if ABC is still getting "fair" reverse compensation from Sinclair/KNDL then nothing is likely going to change. Look at it this way if LIN/ WISH gave into paying CBS what they felt was fair reverse compensation then none of this would be happening in Indy. Very true. I was just saying that if Tribune makes another move like this, that would be a possible option since Tribune has been pretty open in the past about wanting to move the ABC affiliation to KPLR. But even with the poor way the station is run (especially compared to how KTVI was ran when it was an ABC affiliate), ABC probably begrudgingly accepts that it has the short end of the stick when it comes to St. Louis and sticks with Sinclair because they don't want to screw up their deals with more successful ABC affiliates like WSYX and WLOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvcg66b3r 97 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 But even with the poor way the station is run (especially compared to how KTVI was ran when it was an ABC affiliate), ABC probably begrudgingly accepts that it has the short end of the stick when it comes to St. Louis and sticks with Sinclair because they don't want to screw up their deals with more successful ABC affiliates like WSYX and WLOS. Didn't KTVI delay or not clear some ABC programs when it was an affiliate? WHBQ did before it switched to FOX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Here's the story from the Indianapolis Star: http://www.indystar.com/story/entertainment/movies/2014/08/11/wttv-cbs-indianapolis-network-shift-wish-fox59/13893289/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Didn't KTVI delay or not clear some ABC programs when it was an affiliate? WHBQ did before it switched to FOX. I think it did like the other New World affiliates did. But when KTVI had the ABC affiliation, it was one of the strongest performing ABC affiliates in the nation. Now it's with KDNL which is one of the worst performing ABC affiliates in the nation. ABC as a network has been a ratings dog since the move to KDNL. Case in point, even with Good Morning America's increasing dominance nationwide, it still hardly registers in the ratings here in St. Louis. That and the fact that Sinclair is dragging their feet in restarting their news department at KDNL must be aggravating for them. But as long as their affiliation contract is tied in with the other Sinclair ABC affiliates, I think ABC is stuck with KDNL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroiter313 178 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This came out of nowhere Another announcement that I did not see coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4165 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 The big reason to change is the poor OTA allocation WOIO got stuck with -- I think it's something like 9 kw on VHF 10. WJW technically could still go to UHF 31 - I don't know why they haven't done that yet. WOIO does have a translator in Akron (RF 24) so they do put a signal into the Akron/Canton area. The odd thing is, Raycom could easily swap transmitter facilities between WOIO and WUAB, as WUAB actually has a strong signal on UHF, and this wouldn't be an issue. I don't get it. Never have. WJW's app to move back to RF 31 is caught up in FCC red tape. I have no idea when, or if, it will ever be processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry 719 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 WOIO does have a translator in Akron (RF 24) so they do put a signal into the Akron/Canton area. The odd thing is, Raycom could easily swap transmitter facilities between WOIO and WUAB, as WUAB actually has a strong signal on UHF, and this wouldn't be an issue. I don't get it. Never have. WJW's app to move back to RF 31 is caught up in FCC red tape. I have no idea when, or if, it will ever be processed. I think WUAB also got screwed with the allocations. I think they're only 200 kw, which means they have about 20% of the power of most of the other stations, including WBNX. 200 kw probably gives adequate coverage to Lorain and Cuyahoga and maybe Lake counties, but I doubt it gets out as far as some of the other channels do without the help of a rooftop antenna. Here's the story from the Indianapolis Star: http://www.indystar.com/story/entertainment/movies/2014/08/11/wttv-cbs-indianapolis-network-shift-wish-fox59/13893289/ Thanks to the strong CBS line-up, they were giving WTHR a run for their money in a couple of time slots. I guess that means WTHR doesn't have to worry about them anymore. The people at Scripps are also probably pretty happy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadcowatbk 144 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Didn't KTVI delay or not clear some ABC programs when it was an affiliate? WHBQ did before it switched to FOX. Also, wasn't KTVI third place behind KMOV and KSDK with ABC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Also, wasn't KTVI third place behind KMOV and KSDK with ABC? I think it was. But consider that now they're in 4th place at best with KDNL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadcowatbk 144 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think it did like the other New World affiliates did. But when KTVI had the ABC affiliation, it was one of the strongest performing ABC affiliates in the nation. Now it's with KDNL which is one of the worst performing ABC affiliates in the nation. ABC as a network has been a ratings dog since the move to KDNL. Case in point, even with Good Morning America's increasing dominance nationwide, it still hardly registers in the ratings here in St. Louis. That and the fact that Sinclair is dragging their feet in restarting their news department at KDNL must be aggravating for them. But as long as their affiliation contract is tied in with the other Sinclair ABC affiliates, I think ABC is stuck with KDNL. ABC has been a ratings dog since Disney got its hands on it and moved of the sports to E$PN (except during the brief Millionaire craze in 2000). It's probably still a profitable dog for Di$ney due to retrans agreements. Doesn't seem to hurt KMBC. If Tribune were to get ABC in STL, would it place it on KPLR or place it on KTVI and move Fox to KPLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 ABC has been a ratings dog since Disney got its hands on it and moved of the sports to E$PN (except during the brief Millionaire craze in 2000). It's probably still a profitable dog for Di$ney due to retrans agreements. If Tribune were to get ABC in STL, would it place it on KPLR or place it on KTVI and move Fox to KPLR. It would place it on KPLR. No reason to mess with Fox on KTVI. But like I said, all of this seems pretty unlikely (regardless of how hard Tribune does try to do this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadcowatbk 144 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I guess retrans fees matter more than station performance. What other Tribune CW affiliates could be in play for a "Big 4" network? Did CBS get a lowball offer from WISH like NFL did with CBS in 94? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleSeven 1944 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Why do I feel that this is WJXT all over again? Never saw this coming a mile away. Unless they can snag NBC from WTHR, there's absolutely no way they can secure any other option (The Trib got scale with Fox & The Lighthouse got scale with ABC) than go independent or move MyNet from WNDY (and they might even have to think about whether they even want to keep 23, should they can't fill an affil on 8). . At any event, this is no doubt a sad day for Central Indiana Television. You can't take back 58 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadcowatbk 144 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think it was. But consider that now they're in 4th place at best with KDNL. Where does KPLR rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channel2 869 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 How much windfall would WRTV reap from all of this? I know their Scripps ownership isn't doing their already-third-place selves any favors, what with the cheap Scripps crap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother 81 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Where does KPLR rank? KPLR's fallen to fifth place. It's how Tribune was able to take ownership of both KTVI and KPLR outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry 719 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Why do I feel that this is WJXT all over again? Never saw this coming a mile away. Unless they can snag NBC from WTHR, there's absolutely no way they can secure any other option (The Trib got scale with Fox & The Lighthouse got scale with ABC) than go independent or move MyNet from WNDY (and they might even have to think about whether they even want to keep 23, should they can't fill an affil on 8). . At any event, this is no doubt a sad day for Central Indiana Television. You can't take back 58 years. How much windfall would WRTV reap from all of this? I know their Scripps ownership isn't doing their already-third-place selves any favors, what with the cheap Scripps crap... I can see now why scale matters. If WTHR wasn;t such a top-notch operation, they might be able to snag the affiliation. However, they still run the risk of losing NBC since MG can hold NBC hostage. Dick Wolfe (not directly involved with the station, but still an owner) was an executive with Fox a while back, so maybe he still has some pull if they should lose NBC. http://www.heffter.org/board-wolfe.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrtraveler01 737 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Where does KPLR rank? I think now they're 5th. For the longest time they were in 4th but as someone else pointed out, that was back when they had the OTA rights to the Blues and Cardinals. Now they're out of the top 4 which was why Tribune was able to buy KTVI without having to use Dreamcatcher with KPLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson R. 560 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Will be interesting to see what syndie programming the new WTTV will get. Can't see a brand new CBS affiliate getting Maury, Jerry Springer or Steve Wilkos from WXIN, and shows they have on 4.1 now are not generally on CBS stations either so they will probably bid on some shows from other stations. Also wonder if they will have a 10:00 news on 4.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha 2878 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 As to the topic of WTHR: Would NBC really want to take scale over the market's leading news operation? I mean, sure, it's happened before (KTVK), but would NBC really want to do that to WTHR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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