ns8401 846 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Define facts. What happened to get to this point? Who did the accusing? Was there an axe to grind? People seem to hear “sexual harassment” now and get out their pitchforks and torches before even figuring out what happened. That’s where it crosses the line from serious accusation to weapon. In this case it sounds like he went from hired to fired in 12 hours with only one accusation... Why would you not strive for concrete evidence to ensure it isn’t a personal axe to grind? Aren’t we still innocent until proven guilty around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianpr3 173 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 What happened to get to this point? Who did the accusing? Was there an axe to grind? People seem to hear “sexual harassment” now and get out their pitchforks and torches before even figuring out what happened. That’s where it crosses the line from serious accusation to weapon. In this case it sounds like he went from hired to fired in 12 hours with only one accusation... Why would you not strive for concrete evidence to ensure it isn’t a personal axe to grind? Aren’t we still innocent until proven guilty around here? I agree i guess its off with a mans head now it is bordering on misandry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCirq 148 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 What happened to get to this point? Who did the accusing? Was there an axe to grind? People seem to hear “sexual harassment” now and get out their pitchforks and torches before even figuring out what happened. That’s where it crosses the line from serious accusation to weapon. In this case it sounds like he went from hired to fired in 12 hours with only one accusation... Why would you not strive for concrete evidence to ensure it isn’t a personal axe to grind? Aren’t we still innocent until proven guilty around here? Okay. I do not believe that there are no axes to grind, (however there are some rumor mills that keep feeding stories to the tabloids), but at the same time, some stories are egregious such as the case of Charlie Rose. Second, the accused or the accusers do not want to be known as the person that destroyed Matt Lauer hence the report was anonymous. Third, while we do not know all the details, the reward is greater than the risk. While the fallout is sad from a business standpoint, the ethical way of doing things is far more greater. If you want to keep looking at it from a myopic perspective, that's fine. However, wrong is wrong and harassment is a very serious if not egregious act that should not be taken lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevCor 344 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 But there aren’t always consequences and doing something between two consenting adults is not a crime... somebody had to say he violated them... “Matt and I had sex and it wasn’t very good... harassment!” Is the kind of thing I’m afraid we could start seeing. This is something that is easy to turn into a weapon in the blink of an eye... That's not how sexual harassment accusations works, because if THAT was the basis for someone's accusation, they'd be laughed out of HR. I agree i guess its off with a mans head now it is bordering on misandry You're an enabler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianpr3 173 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 You're an enabler. Wrong, the accused if they have not fessed up has the right to defend themselves, i have been accused of bullying by an ex cause i ended a relationship(or so i thought) with her and it ended on bad terms, and i was accused of assaulting a woman because she was harassing and attacking my mother so when i went to defend my mother the woman and 2 of her friends ganged up on me and were very close to attacking me but attacked my dad, dad wanted to press charges but was discouraged because they threatened to lock me up i was very close to going to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess 1110 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Stepping aside from the heated debate with some more details... Apparently the charges date from the 2014 Sochi games, with incidents continuing after that. The accuser notified NBC HR at 6pm on Monday and it took them 35 hours to terminate Matt Lauer. NBC is doing a good job reporting on this story, but I'm surprised more details haven't yet surfaced. That should change later on when the NY Times/Variety stories come out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 That's not how sexual harassment accusations works, because if THAT was the basis for someone's accusation, they'd be laughed out of HR. The person doesn’t tell HR that... they spin the encounter as harassment — something the accused cannot defend against — but the actual reason is far more petty... that’s exactly how it can and does work. Not everything that’s accused is honest and without a personal hatred element of a person desiring somebody’s removal by any means necessary... you clearly don’t pay attention... Questioning the motives doesn’t make anybody an enabler... cool your jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Okay. I do not believe that there are no axes to grind, (however there are some rumor mills that keep feeding stories to the tabloids), but at the same time, some stories are egregious such as the case of Charlie Rose. Second, the accused or the accusers do not want to be known as the person that destroyed Matt Lauer hence the report was anonymous. Third, while we do not know all the details, the reward is greater than the risk. While the fallout is sad from a business standpoint, the ethical way of doing things is far more greater. If you want to keep looking at it from a myopic perspective, that's fine. However, wrong is wrong and harassment is a very serious if not egregious act that should not be taken lightly. Correct. But it’s serious, which means it should take longer than 36 hours to assess... you can’t just automatically side with the accuser and that’s it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC 7 Denver 1554 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I had the same reaction at first. Death first came to mind especially with Savanah's shaky voice as she opened the show. Death? Yeah, of the Today Show... I think this spells the end of this program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianpr3 173 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Stepping aside from the heated debate with some more details... Apparently the charges date from the 2014 Sochi games, with incidents continuing after that. The accuser notified NBC HR at 6pm on Monday and it took them 35 hours to terminate Matt Lauer. NBC is doing a good job reporting on this story, but I'm surprised more details haven't yet surfaced. That should change later on when the NY Times/Variety stories come out... Then why does it say it originated at the rio games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidwestTV 1173 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Even though it's still too early to do speculating (it did just break four hours ago), the primary replacements are already on the Today brand, much less already on the network. I'd almost bet the top of the list are for Mr. Lack to pull Sunday Today's Willie Geist from MSNBC's Morning Joe OR pull Weekend Today's Craig Melvin from dayside duty on MSNBC Live. Also, for trivial purposes, there's also Carson Daly. Had he not left, Thomas Roberts might have been a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B2r4a6n 102 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I can see them announcing in a couple of weeks that starting in January Hoda and either Craig Melvin or Willie Giest will join Savannah and they'll have a trio. My Money is currently on Melvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4167 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Death? Yeah, of the Today Show... I think this spells the end of this program. Today survived the rather inglorious firings of Jane Pauley and Ann Curry. It can and will survive this. Too bad this spirit of accountability doesn't extend to the most powerful man of all -- a man who built his life and (political) career by taking liberties with the vulnerable. Trump's already in enough legal trouble as it is IN SPITE of more than enough Republican voters giving him an atta-boy for admitting to sexual assault. And the US Senate is already talking about expelling Roy Moore, should he be elected, before he takes office. That same relativism has seeped into the Democrats, as seen by Al Franken and John Conyers. They won't resign because of course the bad apple Republicans won't resign, and it's all because they need their votes for this and that. Expect this to continue with no end in sight, at least until someone of power has the gumption to tell everyone to grow up and stop this. Point being, we've only just begun, and I wish I was quoting the Carpenters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cna247 173 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Why do some of you assume that NBC made this decision hastily? Perhaps they've been investigating other incidents. Perhaps the evidence was so damning that there wasn't a question of whether the accusation was real or not. I am sure a huge organization like that doesn't issue pink slips without doing their homework. Might I remind some of you that "innocent until proven guilty" means you have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court of law. This is not the standard used in civil cases "preponderance of evidence" (more likely than not). NBC is not a criminal court or a civil court. I assume they have their own processes in place for dealing with these types of situations, and therefore may use their own reasonable standard for evaluating such situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Why do some of you assume that NBC made this decision hastily? Perhaps they've been investigating other incidents. Perhaps the evidence was so damning that there wasn't a question of whether the accusation was real or not. I am sure a huge organization like that doesn't issue pink slips without doing their homework. Might I remind some of you that "innocent until proven guilty" means you have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court of law. This is not the standard used in civil cases "preponderance of evidence" (more likely than not). NBC is not a criminal court or a civil court. I assume they have their own processes in place for dealing with these types of situations, and therefore may use their own reasonable standard for evaluating such situations. Their own statement said this was the only one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNewsie 49 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I can see them announcing in a couple of weeks that starting in January Hoda and either Craig Melvin or Willie Giest will join Savannah and they'll have a trio. My Money is currently on Melvin. Whatever happened to Carl Quintannila, he doesn't fill in as often anymore. But I would like for him to get the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eat News 4738 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Death? Yeah, of the Today Show... I think this spells the end of this program. Unless they go with ....brace yourselves.... An all female cast. Yup...move Kelly to the main product... Before CBSTM gets Oprah for the Feb book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmaxhanson 650 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 And now here's my take. We all knew Matt Lauer's retirement was coming, but not so soon and not like this. As for me, I thought NBC would keep him on until at the latest 2030. I'm sure this news will further downgrade Today into the world of sugar-coated escapism that it and GMA been trying to convey on most days since 9/11. It's most likely been posted on the Classic Video Thread, but I'd thought you'd all like once again to see the beginnings of Matt Lauer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningNews 1293 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 And we always have. We can just see it 24/7 in HD and we can personally record it live in HD now... where before it was simply word against word or never saw the light of day on a large scale... for the folks shocked that crazy things happen... I don’t know what to tell you... yes they do because you are dealing with imperfect beings... of course they are gonna be screwed up... Matt is being accused of intimidating women he worked with into sex or sexual acts with him. He had a freaking button under his desk that locked his office door when people came in. There is a difference between sleeping with a coworker (which is still a violation of most company policies) and intimidating people with your power to have sex with you. Matt is accused of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivefromNewYork 37 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 There were reports awhile ago Lauer signed to leave after this year right? They had to have some sort of short list. Also of intrest is the roll out of Hoda in recent months. I’m rooting for (long shot) Brian Williams gettng the spot, but Hoda or Kelly would be just as well. Wille seems like a front runner to me, but his Sunday show is going pretty good. Although being a straight shooter, I wonder if his affiliation with partisan Morning Joe would harm him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningNews 1293 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Some of you are seriously idiots.. Matt isn't being charged with a crime. Even if he consensually slept with co-workers that is a violation of corporate policy at MOST companies across this country. Furthermore, allegations like this are not just taken at face value (which is sad) there is extreme vetting and investigation that go on immediately to determine the validity of the claims. Matt wasn't just suspended, he was fired. They had enough in their investigation of 35 hours to lead them to the decision they made. This is a reflection on how bad the evidence was. ns8401 and the others are being willfully naive because they probably love Matt Lauer and his work, like most people did. However, that does not mean he's incapable of being a sexual absuser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4167 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Looks to me like this is why Matt was fired. Otherwise I have a hunch he may have been simply suspended without pay per the allegation Andy Lack, et al, were investigating. [MEDIA=twitter]935971533624786944[/MEDIA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Some of you are seriously idiots.. Matt isn't being charged with a crime. Even if he consensually slept with co-workers that is a violation of corporate policy at MOST companies across this country. Furthermore, allegations like this are not just taken at face value (which is sad) there is extreme vetting and investigation that go on immediately to determine the validity of the claims. Matt wasn't just suspended, he was fired. They had enough in their investigation of 35 hours to lead them to the decision they made. This is a reflection on how bad the evidence was. ns8401 and the others are being willfully naive because they probably love Matt Lauer and his work, like most people did. However, that does not mean he's incapable of being a sexual absuser. I’m indifferent to the man but what they were doing is getting ahead of an article on his activities... nobody said he was incapable but that article is the more I wanted to see first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCirq 148 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex979 118 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Several women told Variety they complained to executives at the network about Lauer’s behavior, which fell on deaf ears given the lucrative advertising surrounding “Today.” From the Variety article.... That sounds exactly like what happened at Fox News. Comcast needs to launch a full investigation as 21CF did, and clean house if necessary. Remember these are the same executives who passed on Ronan Farrow's Harvey Weinstein story. It almost seems like there might be a larger issue with the culture at NBC News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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