Media General, Young to merge

[NewsMaster 226]

Ugh, here we go again. Why does everyone think that NBC would be so much better going back to KRON? KRON runs more like a Fox affiliate than an NBC affiliate right now. Why would NBC be better there? Is there something wrong with KNTV that I don't know about? KNTV seems like a very good NBC O&O to me.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

Ugh, here we go again. Why does everyone think that NBC would be so much better going back to KRON? KRON runs more like a Fox affiliate than an NBC affiliate right now. Why would NBC be better there? Is there something wrong with KNTV that I don't know about? KNTV seems like a very good NBC O&O to me.

 

NBC needs to move back to KRON because it needs to improve its signal (because the transmitter for KNTV is 5 miles South of KRON's and that seems to make all the difference, plus the fact that it would be in UHF which makes all the difference and worth spending millions and millions of dollars to confuse viewers and what not (even though KNTV can just request to move to a UHF signal if it really wanted to so badly).

 

So sarcasm aside, no it doesn't make sense for NBC to move back to KRON, if anyone would buy KRON, it would be Fox if they finally get tired of their rocky relationship with KTVU. I find Fox buying KRON more likely than NBC buying KRON.

[24994J 5276]

WHY CAN'T EVERYTHING JUST F**KING STAY THE SAME?!?!?!

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

WHY CAN'T EVERYTHING JUST F**KING STAY THE SAME?!?!?!

 

Because some people can't let go of the past. That's the only logic reason behind what I see people so fixated on KRON going back to NBC.

 

NBC is going to have branding problems whether they are at KNTV or at KRON. NBC's problem in the Bay Area isn't that it's not on UHF, it's that they can't stay with one consistent brand. They have to keep changing the brand every couple of years. If you're trying to compete against established competitors like KPIX, KGO and KTVU, you got to come up with a brand that would compete against the likes of them and STICK WITH IT.

 

Moving NBC to Channel 4 and making it NBC 4 isn't going to magically cause people to flip from KGO, KTVU, and KPIX to KRON if the product still isn't on par with those 3.

 

Comcast needs to just keep investing in KNTV and increase their news gathering capabilities in San Francisco (whether with a bureau up there or whatever). Being in San Jose shouldn't hinder them from being able to compete much like KTVU being in Oakland doesn't hinder them from being competitive in this very competitive market.

 

NBC invested tons in WTVJ in Miami to make it competitive once again and it seems to have worked. Why can't NBC do the same with KNTV?

[mike91 66]

The San Francisco market has 92% Cable Penetration. So we are talking about something that affects only 8% of the area. In that 8% are people who don't care about cable and just have Netflix/Hulu, don't care about watching TV period, don't really care to watch NBC or actually get the channel OTA. How many people would this truly affect? I don't think that buying a station to improve signal for just a handful of people is worth paying millions of dollars to fix.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

The San Francisco market has 92% Cable Penetration. So we are talking about something that affects only 8% of the area. In that 8% are people who don't care about cable and just have Netflix/Hulu, don't care about watching TV period, don't really care to watch NBC or actually get the channel OTA. How many people would this truly affect? I don't think that buying a station to improve signal for just a handful of people is worth paying millions of dollars to fix.

 

And as I mentioned earlier, if NBC really wanted a UHF signal, they could just petition the FCC to move KNTV's signal to a UHF signal if they really wanted to so badly.

 

And it would cost a whole lot less than buying another TV station.

[CircleSeven 1944]

 

And as I mentioned earlier, if NBC really wanted a UHF signal, they could just petition the FCC to move KNTV's signal to a UHF signal if they really wanted to so badly.

 

And it would cost a whole lot less than buying another TV station.

 

The bad news about that is, that the FCC has placed freezes on stations maximizing by boosting its power on existing facilities, and making new petitions to move channels. The freezes are still going pending the outcome of those upcoming incentive spectrum auctions. And once the auctions are done, it could be a possibility that some channels might come back to that problematic VHF signals again. OOOH that's another reason why I hate this new Broadband Plan crap.

 

Some Media General stations and Raycom's WMC already made their petitions two years ago, prior to the freeze. And the FCC has yet to issue any NPRMs and/or R&Os on those petitions.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

The San Francisco market has 92% Cable Penetration. So we are talking about something that affects only 8% of the area. In that 8% are people who don't care about cable and just have Netflix/Hulu, don't care about watching TV period, don't really care to watch NBC or actually get the channel OTA. How many people would this truly affect? I don't think that buying a station to improve signal for just a handful of people is worth paying millions of dollars to fix.

 

Children, you have so much to learn.

 

Let's see now, there are 2,502,030 TV households in the San Francisco Bay Area per Nielsen. I know many of the youth these days are mathematically challenged since they don't teach multiplication tables anymore, so pull out your calculators ...... 8% of 2,502,030 million is .... 200,162 households. And of those 200,162 NBC wouldn't be competing with 300 cable channels, not to mention that NBC would be the ONLY major network affiliate with a ROBUST UHF signal.

 

200,162 households, what does that mean? That is roughly the size of DMA's 128 to 133. Roughly 400,000 people, which isn't too shabby.

 

128 128 La Crosse-Eau Claire

129 129 Corpus Christi

130 130 Amarillo

131 131 Chico-Redding

132 132 Wilmington

133 133 Columbus-Tupelo-W Pnt-Hstn

 

Yes. OTA Still matters.

 

Again, this doesn't even count second and third TV sets, TV sets in doctors' offices and barbershops, etc. that have no cable hookup.

 

And this has nothing to do with waxing romantic about the KRON call letters or the Channel 4 dial position - it is just a nice bonus. THIS IS ALL ABOUT HAVING THE MOST ROBUST SIGNAL TO SERVE THOSE 200,000 +/- TELEVISION HOMES (TRANSLATING TO ROUGHLY 400,000 PEOPLE)!

 

AND THE MOST ROBUST SIGNAL IN THE DIGITAL AGE IS A UHF SIGNAL! NBC WOULD BE CRAZY NOT TO BUY IT!

 

Sooooooooo ... what does a station in LaCrosse, WI go for these days? $30 million or so? That's the upper limit of what the UHF Signal is worth to NBC!

 

Do you now see why Sinclair has been so aggressive in making sure they have the most robust signal available?

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

not to mention that NBC would be the ONLY major network affiliate with a ROBUST UHF signal.

 

KTVU and KPIX are also on a UHF signal as well (Ch. 44 and 39 respectively) and are both broadcasting from the same tower that KRON broadcasts from. So you're wrong in regards to that.

 

So if you're going to be condescending to us, at least get your fact in order first.

[24994J 5276]

 

Can you kids not read?

 

 

Children, you have so much to learn.

 

[CircleSeven 1944]

AND THE MOST ROBUST SIGNAL IS A UHF SIGNAL!

Not when FCC is trying to slash more of the UHF channels off the grid for that Broadband crap. After auctions, you better hope there's some UHF left, without interfering co-channel adjacents in adjacent markets. Many stations spent millions changing channels after the digital transition four years ago. And likely they would have to do it again after the auction. Yes, WLS, like WHDH, KWTV, WGHP, KTVT and the countless others had to move from a VHF-high signal to a UHF signal, after the transition. But if you think NBC is going to either move channels or buy KRON and waste a good amount of loot to do so, they might as well use all the capital to produce good shows and invest into the local stations productions instead.

 

But like many of them are saying, KRON is right now white elephant that got gutted so bad by all the bullshit after Young's takeover and their bankruptcy, it would take eons to bring it back to what it once was, if ever. With that said, and as what many have stated here. I don't think it would make any financial sense for NBC to acquire KRON, even if its signal is in Sutro Tower and not KNTV.

 

If things would've been different and NBC would've gotten KRON in the first place, we wouldn't even have this discussion today. But it's been over a decade and many average Bay Area folks might be looking past KRON as an NBC affiliate by now. Do I want to see KRON go back as NBC? Sure? But it wouldn't make any financial sense to do so right now.

 

24994J, Clever! LOL!

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

KTVU is on a UHF signal as well (Ch. 44) and is broadcasting from the same tower that KRON broadcasts from. So you're wrong in that respect.

 

I'm assuming NBC gets KRON and Fox gets VHF 11.

 

 

 

 

KTVU and KPIX are also on a UHF signal as well (Ch. 44 and 39 respectively) and are both broadcasting from the same tower that KRON broadcasts from. So you're wrong in regards to that.

 

So if you're going to be condescending to us, at least get your fact in order first.

 

 

 

I thought KPIX was on VHF. My mistake. See, only Disney was dumb enough to voluntarily take VHF channels. But then again, they're not broadcasters. Most of the broadcasters knew enough to go with UHF.

 

But then that's even more reason to take KRON and peddle VHF 11 to Fox. Fox doesn't care how they get into the market, they just want to own a station there.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

I'm assuming NBC gets KRON and Fox gets VHF 11.

 

But using your logic, why would Fox want to give up affiliation with KTVU which has a UHF signal for a VHF signal?

 

You see how your own idea falls apart with just the logic you are trying to present to us?

 

(Also forgot to mention that KPIX is also on UHF from the same tower as KRON as well, so either way KRON will not be the only network affilate with a UHF signal in the Bay Area)

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

Not when FCC is trying to slash more of the UHF channels off the grid for that Broadband crap. After auctions, you better hope there's some UHF left, without interfering co-channel adjacents in adjacent markets. Many stations spent millions changing channels after the digital transition four years ago. And likely they would have to do it again after the auction. Yes, WLS, like WHDH, KWTV, WGHP, KTVT and the countless others had to move from a VHF-high signal to a UHF signal, after the transition. But if you think NBC is going to either move channels or buy KRON and waste a good amount of loot to do so, they might as well use all the capital to produce good shows and invest into the local stations productions instead.

 

But like many of them are saying, KRON is right now white elephant that got gutted so bad by all the bullshit after Young's takeover and their bankruptcy, it would take eons to bring it back to it once was, if ever. With that said, and as what many have stated here. I don't think it would make any financial sense for NBC to acquire KRON, even if its signal is in Sutro Tower and not KNTV.

 

If things would've been different and NBC would've gotten KRON in the first place, we wouldn't even have this discussion today. But it's been over a decade and many average Bay Area folks might be looking past KRON as an NBC affiliate by now. Do I want to see KRON go back as NBC? Sure? But it wouldn't make any financial sense to do so right now.

 

Do you know how many years it will take for all this to unfold? Think AM Stereo or HD Radio. They are in the voluntary phase right now and they aren't even close to making it mandatory. The value of the UHF dial position is only going to potentially grow until then.

 

But that's beside the point. I look at what the most successful broadcasters do and the most successful broadcasters always invest money in making sure they have the best signal they can. It still has value.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

But using your logic, why would Fox want to give up affiliation with KTVU which has a UHF signal for a VHF signal?

 

But the money goes into Cox's pocket, not Fox's. I'm not saying VHF is the end of the world, but if I have a choice, I'm going with UHF.

 

We'll see how this shakes out, but if NBC is kicking the tires of KRON, YET AGAIN, something has to be up.

[CircleSeven 1944]

Do you know how many years it will take for all this to unfold? Think AM Stereo or HD Radio. They are in the voluntary phase right now and they aren't even close to making it mandatory. The value of the UHF dial position is only going to potentially grow until then.

 

But that's beside the point. I look at what the most successful broadcasters do and the most successful broadcasters always invest money in making sure they have the best signal they can. It still has value.

Yes, but you don't understand what the FCC wants to do with the UHF signal, and would force broadcasters to repack again, after they did so four years ago. Once all the auctions are over, you have to realize which stations will move to avalible UHF allotment, or go to a very bad VHF allotment.

 

Obviously, the FCC doesn't care how long will it take for all the channels to reshuffle (even if both stations possibly sharing the same frequency), just as long as low-income, senior citizens and children have affordable broadband internet access, that's all they care about. Therefore broadcasters would have to break the bank again, moving channels again, while many consumers are going to the network websites and watching Netflix & Hulu or other TV Everywhere sites for their programming content needs.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

But the money goes into Cox's pocket, not Fox's. I'm not saying VHF is the end of the world, but if I have a choice, I'm going with UHF.

 

So why wouldn't Fox just buy KRON outright and leave NBC out of the picture if having a UHF signal is that important?

[mre29 1340]

 

Let's see now, there are 2,502,030 TV households in the San Francisco Bay Area per Nielsen. I know many of the youth these days are mathematically challenged since they don't teach multiplication tables anymore, so pull out your calculators ...... 8% of 2,502,030 million is .... 200,162 households. And of those 200,162 NBC wouldn't be competing with 300 cable channels, not to mention that NBC would be the ONLY major network affiliate with a ROBUST UHF signal.

 

And how many people in those 200,162 households speak English or watch English-language television?

 

Also, you still haven't addressed something I brought up earlier in this thread: The fate of KNTV's current operation and its employees. Do you think NBC would really sell all of that to Fox and spend money improving KRON's (presumably inferior) studio and news product? That would be silly.

 

They would be better off swapping the two stations' frequencies and then selling the "new" channel 11.... except that at that point, it'd make more sense to move KSTS's Spanish-language programming to either 4 or 11 and selling its old channel. (My post last night may have been tongue in cheek, but it's actually rather plausible when you think about it.)

[mre29 1340]

 

Because some people can't let go of the past. That's the only logic reason behind what I see people so fixated on KRON going back to NBC.

 

NBC is going to have branding problems whether they are at KNTV or at KRON. NBC's problem in the Bay Area isn't that it's not on UHF, it's that they can't stay with one consistent brand. They have to keep changing the brand every couple of years. If you're trying to compete against established competitors like KPIX, KGO and KTVU, you got to come up with a brand that would compete against the likes of them and STICK WITH IT.

 

Moving NBC to Channel 4 and making it NBC 4 isn't going to magically cause people to flip from KGO, KTVU, and KPIX to KRON if the product still isn't on par with those 3.

 

Comcast needs to just keep investing in KNTV and increase their news gathering capabilities in San Francisco (whether with a bureau up there or whatever). Being in San Jose shouldn't hinder them from being able to compete much like KTVU being in Oakland doesn't hinder them from being competitive in this very competitive market.

 

NBC invested tons in WTVJ in Miami to make it competitive once again and it seems to have worked. Why can't NBC do the same with KNTV?

 

Post of the day.

[Bayarea_tv 3]

I think what would be attractive for Fox is to take over the new KNTV facilities which is in close proximity to the new 49'ers stadium. Fox has this new NFL deal in the works and having the station close by in Santa Clara county would be perfect. It is a new state of the art facility with all the latest technology - digital operations center. If I were Fox I would jump at the chance to get Channel 11 - let's say FOX 11 or KFXI Bay Area. KNTV could then either merge their staff and facilities with the former KRON or whatever they will call it say NBC4 at the Comcast Operations Center. The building at 1001 Van Ness is prime real estate for the new medical office complex going up at the old Jack Tar hotel site.

 

It is a win win situation - Comcast/NBC Universal. News Corp, Cox and Media General can work this out in some way shape or form....

[ColumbusNewsFan 217]

The problem is after reading all of this.... I don't think NBC is interested in KRON and want to build up KNTV. Even though us TV News geeks think KRON and NBC is a good idea, But let's look at this realistically. COX isn't giving up Channel 2, KRON if ran right by MG could be a money maker for them.

 

I think the catalystic won't be NBC but FOX and If FOX can make a really good deal with KNTV then all the talk can be begin in earnest of What would be NBC's next move. My bet would be it wouldn't channel 4 but Channel 2 They have the respect in the market and the much need viewers that NBC needs.

 

Truthfully, It's all specutron material until FOX makes it's move and They might want KRON themself and cut out the middle man. Entrance in the market and brand reconigtion plus No more having to worry about Channel 2 and COX.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

 

Intended as a term of endearment, but still guessing most of the people here are younger than I am.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

Yes, but you don't understand what the FCC wants to do with the UHF signal, and would force broadcasters to repack again, after they did so four years ago. Once all the auctions are over, you have to realize which stations will move to avalible UHF allotment, or go to a very bad VHF allotment.

 

Obviously, the FCC doesn't care how long will it take for all the channels to reshuffle (even if both stations possibly sharing the same frequency), just as long as low-income, senior citizens and children have affordable broadband internet access, that's all they care about. Therefore broadcasters would have to break the bank again, moving channels again, while many consumers are going to the network websites and watching Netflix & Hulu or other TV Everywhere sites for their programming content needs.

 

Hey, David Smith said he was okay with the repacking proposal. If he angles to get UHF wherever he can and he's still okay with it, that means he knows something.

 

But still, that could be 10 or 20 years away. In the mean time, there's a lot of money to be made broadcasting to 400,000 people in the bay area. AND NBC is going to be compensated, at least theoretically.

 

I just had another thought about Fox on VHF 11. Because Fox has the 49-ers, people are going to be a lot more motivated to invest in an outdoor antenna than the NBC viewer is going to be to watch "The Community" or "West Wing". So this might not be not such a bad move for them even.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

Hey, David Smith said he was okay with the repacking proposal. If he angles to get UHF wherever he can and he's still okay with it, that means he knows something.

 

But still, that could be 10 or 20 years away. In the mean time, there's a lot of money to be made broadcasting to 400,000 people in the bay area. AND NBC is going to be compensated, at least theoretically.

 

I just had another thought about Fox on VHF 11. Because Fox has the 49-ers, people are going to be a lot more motivated to invest in an outdoor antenna than the NBC viewer is going to be to watch "The Community" or "West Wing". So this might not be not such a bad move for them even.

Why wouldn't Fox just buy KRON outright and leave NBC out of the picture?

 

Using your own argument, Fox would have a UHF signal AND a O&O station. Why would they settle for a VHF frequency when they have the opportunity to buy a station with a UHF frequency?

[CircleSeven 1944]

Hey, David Smith said he was okay with the repacking proposal. If he angles to get UHF wherever he can and he's still okay with it, that means he knows something.

 

But still, that could be 10 or 20 years away. In the mean time, there's a lot of money to be made broadcasting to 400,000 people in the bay area. AND NBC is going to be compensated, at least theoretically.

 

I just had another thought about Fox on VHF 11. Because Fox has the 49-ers, people are going to be a lot more motivated to invest in an outdoor antenna than the NBC viewer is going to be to watch "The Community" or "West Wing". So this might not be not such a bad move for them even.

Well, call me back when NBC actually does something, which I think they won't budge. Just the same as you wanted to see CBS move from 62 to some Canadian allotment. And I don't think anyone from the cities to the burbs, or even the far-fringes would want to risk their lives placing up outdoor antennas on their roofs, if they can get their signal good with a classic indoor antenna.

 

And I don't believe what comes out of Ol' Massa David's mouth, while all this dirty devilish bastard wants to do is to compulsively get bigger, at any cost. Even using his luciferian banker friends Anderson & Mumblow to get bigger. The only thing that benefits this devil is that he bought that antenna manufacturer, Dielectric, and he's going to get business anyway when many stations start repacking anyway. And it's not going to take twenty years. It probably took within a decade to get all the stations to get digital, why would it take an even longer time do all of that. And anyways, KNTV/NBC, or KRON has made any inclination that they're moving anything, so......

 

Why wouldn't Fox just buy KRON outright and leave NBC out of the picture?

Maybe because he wants KRON to be NBC so bad. Similar to some folks who want WCAU to be CBS again....