Media General, Young to merge

[Breaking News 802]

Well wasn't FOX sniffing around KRON 4 to be the new home, and KTVU would lose the affiliation, because FOX wanted O&O in San Fran & Seattle.

 

It would behove Tribune to take control of the station and turn it into a strong indy outlet create news a news block AM Morning 4-6:30pm, 9, 10 along with a strong block of syndie shows.

[Bayarea_tv 3]

I think there very well was a reason KNTV changed their station branding to simply NBC Bay Area. Comcast/NBC Universal was perhaps planning a move somewhere down the road to take over KRON move it to the South Bay or a new centralized broadcast facility and then ultimately call it NBC4 Bay Area.

 

The question is where does Fox fit in this picture? Could there be a station trade in the works where Fox leaves KTVU? Media General, Cox or Comcast/NBC Universal does some sort of multi-station trade and Fox ultimately ends up being Fox11 Bay Area?

 

Will KTVU and or KOFY/KICU be the next My Network affiliated station or O&O?

 

Stayed tuned.....

[caliwxdude 252]

 

I think there very well was a reason KNTV changed their station branding to simply NBC Bay Area. Comcast/NBC Universal was perhaps planning a move somewhere down the road to take over KRON move it to the South Bay or a new centralized broadcast facility and then ultimately call it NBC4 Bay Area.

 

The question is where does Fox fit in this picture? Could there be a station trade in the works where Fox leaves KTVU? Media General, Cox or Comcast/NBC Universal does some sort of multi-station trade and Fox ultimately ends up being Fox11 Bay Area?

 

Will KTVU and or KOFY/KICU be the next My Network affiliated station or O&O?

 

Stayed tuned.....

 

Sigh. Please refrain from regurgitating everything Rich Lieberman writes or just posting random speculative questions; they don't add much to the conversation. Sure, Lieberman has some good talent-related scoops but most of his blog posts are personal postulations, and this KNTV/KRON/KTVU/Fox/NBC stuff falls into that category.

 

NBC dropped the channel number from KNTV because it wasn't relevant. While cable penetration in the Bay Area is pretty high, it's not to the level of a market like San Diego. There are a good number of people here who punch in 3/703 to watch KNTV and an equally significant amount of people punch in 11-1. Why confuse them by picking one number over the other?

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

Sigh. Please refrain from regurgitating everything Rich Lieberman writes or just posting random speculative questions; they don't add much to the conversation. Sure, Lieberman has some good talent-related scoops but most of his blog posts are personal postulations, and this KNTV/KRON/KTVU/Fox/NBC stuff falls into that category.

 

NBC dropped the channel number from KNTV because it wasn't relevant. While cable penetration in the Bay Area is pretty high, it's not to the level of a market like San Diego. There are a good number of people here who punch in 3/703 to watch KNTV and an equally significant amount of people punch in 11-1. Why confuse them by picking one number over the other?

 

I don't get it either. Young pretty much obliterated any prestigate and value KRON had left and it's now a shell of its former self. I don't see how moving 7 spots down the channel dial and 1 channel up on the cable dial is going to help NBC after they spent millions building up KNTV.

 

People who think KRON has the same value that it did back when it had the NBC affiliation are fooling themselves.

[DirtyHarry 719]

 

I don't get it either. Young pretty much obliterated any prestigate and value KRON had left and it's now a shell of its former self. I don't see how moving 7 spots down the channel dial and 1 channel up on the cable dial is going to help NBC after they spent millions building up KNTV.

 

People who think KRON has the same value that it did back when it had the NBC affiliation are fooling themselves.

 

The UHF signal has lots of value. It can be tuned in more easily and has a more stable signal than a VHF signal does. It works far better for mobile TV. Yes, there are still a lot of viewers OTA ... lots of second TV sets and sets in garages and barber shops and doctors offices that rely on an OTA signal. Yes, it has value.

 

And even if it doesn't have that much value for TV viewing, it has value being sold for cellular service.

 

Either way, it is a valuable asset.

 

Then you also have the 150 year tradition of being an arm of the Chronicle that NBC gets to tap in to. I think it's worth it.

 

I'm thinking they're going to work out a deal where KRON goes to NBC and Fox gets Channel 11. Who gets which facilities? I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some kind of a transition period ...

 

 

 

 

NBC dropped the channel number from KNTV because it wasn't relevant.

 

 

Again, not everybody wants to or can afford to pay $129 a month for a bunch of crappy cable channels. Take it from someone who has tried to tune OTA signals before. VHF sucks ... especially if you have stucco. The mesh inside the stucco makes stable reception virtually impossible without an outdoor antenna ... and this was with a relatively high powered station at 59 kw (WSYX). I can only imagine what it's like to tune in one of the pea shooters at 30 kw or 10 kw (WOIO).

[Mrtraveler01 737]

Then you also have the 150 year tradition of being an arm of the Chronicle that NBC gets to tap in to. I think it's worth it.

KRON hasn't been affiliated with the Chronicle since 1999 when the DeYoungs put both of them up sale and they both went their separate ways. They hardly do anything together anymore (if at all). That's why I keep saying, the KRON of the 70's, 80's, and 90's is not the KRON of today. This is why I keep thinking that you moving NBC back to KRON will bring back its glory days. It won't. History is pretty irrelevant in broadcasting these days, it doesn't matter how much history or prestiege a TV station has, if it doesn't have it today and if it doesn't make money for them, it's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

NBC doesn't gain that much that they wouldn't get staying on KNTV. If they did move back to KRON, they would have to start their whole entire operation again from scratch, just like they did with KNTV. Why make the same mistake twice?

 

Not to mention the unnecessary confusion it will cause for Bay Area viewers if NBC were to move again. It's been on Ch.11 Cable 3 now for about 12 years, why cause more confusion for viewers? For nostalgia?

[caliwxdude 252]

 

Again, not everybody wants to or can afford to pay $129 a month for a bunch of crappy cable channels. Take it from someone who has tried to tune OTA signals before. VHF sucks ... especially if you have stucco. The mesh inside the stucco makes stable reception virtually impossible without an outdoor antenna ... and this was with a relatively high powered station at 59 kw (WSYX). I can only imagine what it's like to tune in one of the pea shooters at 30 kw or 10 kw (WOIO).

 

I completely agree with you—I'm one of those people who also refuses to hand Comcast > $100 each month and instead uses an indoor antenna for DTV. From my place in SF's Mission neighborhood, I get pretty much every channel from Sutro Tower (even though my apartment is on the east half of my building, facing away from Sutro). KNTV is a non-starter as it's off of Mount San Bruno, which is obscured by a few hills for most of the city. It's very irritating but I'm choosing to just catch up on my NBC shows (honestly, the only thing I watch on NBC is Parks & Rec) via Hulu these days, and I'll just head to the bar for Sunday Night Football.

 

KNTV has always had an OTA problem in the city of San Francisco, even after the transmitter moved from Loma Prieta to San Bruno. It's great in most of the Bay Area, but terrible in SF. If NBC wants to spend money in the Bay Area, they should do what it takes put up a low-powered translator on Sutro to boost the OTA signal in the city. KGO has already placed a translator on Mt. Allison to increase their OTA signal in the South Bay; it only makes sense for KNTV to do the same. Problem solved, no need to spend hundreds of millions rebuilding KRON.

[DirtyHarry 719]

Translators don't have enough ooph. Look for them to take the signal only like what happened in Miami, keeping their facilities and call letters. Fox gets VHF 11 and KRON's facilities and maybe the call letters.

 

Remember, MG is a big NBC affiliate and they've done business with NBC before. They have virtually no relationship with Fox.

[GoldenShine9 1509]

That brings up a point: perhaps NBC can buy KRON and use it as a satellite for KNTV?

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

Translators don't have enough ooph. Look for them to take the signal only like what happened in Miami, keeping their facilities and call letters. Fox gets VHF 11 and KRON's facilities and maybe the call letters.

 

So confuse Bay Area viewers with a 3-way swap just like Denver did in the 90's? Great... (sarcasm)

 

If anything Fox would buy KRON before NBC did, Fox has more of a legitimate reason, especially if Cox doesn't want to give up KTVU to them. But the only way I see Fox really doing this is if KTVU stops being a moneymaker for both Cox and Fox and their ratings tank in the process, that's pretty much the only thing keeping their relationship in tact at the moment.

[DirtyHarry 719]

Mark my words on this: MG and NBC are tight. No bad blood like with Young. MG scratches NBC's back, and they WILL get something back in return.

 

That is, if NBC wants it and it looks like they do.

 

Signal is everything and KRON has the signal.

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

That is, if NBC wants it and it looks like they do.

 

Based on what? Speculation and rumors?

 

 

 

Signal is everything and KRON has the signal.

 

So NBC is going to spend millions rebuilding a second station in the Bay Area in a little over a decade just so it has a better OTA signal just a few years after building a brand new facility and transmission tower for their current station?

[mike91 66]

Think about it from this perspective. Comcast is one of the cable companies in the Bay Area. Do you really think they want to buy a station that would help their OTA station get better signal and maybe give people more incentive to "cut the cord", thus lose revenue in the process?

[Mrtraveler01 737]

 

Think about it from this perspective. Comcast is one of the cable companies in the Bay Area. Do you really think they want to buy a station that would help their OTA station get better signal and maybe give people more incentive to "cut the cord", thus lose revenue in the process?

 

 

Didn't think of that but that's actually a pretty valid point. I guess I still keep forgetting that NBC and KNTV are both owned by Comcast now.

 

But you're right, the OTA signal of a station is probably pretty low on the priority list for networks like NBC.

[DirtyHarry 719]

"So NBC is going to spend millions rebuilding a second station in the Bay Area in a little over a decade just so it has a better OTA signal just a few years after building a brand new facility and transmission tower for their current station?"

 

They didn't have to do that in Miami.

 

Sinclair thinks being on UHF is important enough that they upgraded at EVERY opportunity dump in VHF wherever they could. And you say OTA is irrelevant? You know more than David Smith? How many stations do you own?

 

------

 

"Do you really think they want to buy a station that would help their OTA station get better signal and maybe give people more incentive to "cut the cord", thus lose revenue in the process?"

 

Simplistic way of looking at things. If ALL OTA disappeared then you MIGHT have a point. But as long as there is OTA broadcasting, you're going to want the best facilities available and that means UHF.

 

Besides, it's not like they'll get nothing for the VHF station. They probably got it so cheap (remember, it was a podunk ABC affiliate), they'll probably still make money selling it when all is said and done.

[sanewsguy 509]

 

Simplistic way of looking at things. If ALL OTA disappeared then you MIGHT have a point. But as long as there is OTA broadcasting, you're going to want the best facilities available and that means UHF.

 

But the cable company owns the station. They probably don't want to get a better signal so the incentive would be if people really wanted to view KNTV programming, subscribe to Comcast!

[DirtyHarry 719]

"But the cable company owns the station. They probably don't want to get a better signal so the incentive would be if people really wanted to view KNTV programming, subscribe to Comcast!"

 

But look at Philly. Those who can't get WPVI on VHF 6 just live without it since its mostly a lost cause. Since KPIX and KGO are both VHF, a UHF signal is a huge advantage not to mention that cable penetration is low for Mexicans and other immigrant communities which SF has a lot of.

 

So, yeah. In the ideal world they want to get people paying for cable. But if they are smart businessmen, they are going to let KNTV do what it has to, within reason of course.

[mre29 1340]

 

NBC doesn't gain that much that they wouldn't get staying on KNTV. If they did move back to KRON, they would have to start their whole entire operation again from scratch, just like they did with KNTV. Why make the same mistake twice?

 

I would hope this is where the facility swap would come in: The entity known as NBC Bay Area would simply move to the channel 4 frequency and transmitter, while channel 11 gets sold to another company... with or without the old KRON studios.

 

But if they sell their current KNTV operation to Fox and start from scratch on KRON, they deserve to be the laughing stock of the local media.

[Bayarea_tv 3]

Comcast already has a strong presence on KRON. I do not think they would have to start from scratch. The 24/7 Newschannel and CSN Bay Area have a visible presence on Channel 4.

[GoldenShine9 1509]

I think the big thing for Media General is the sale value that they would get being in a top 10 market. Would they use that to improve their current/new stations, or buy additional stations, or just pay down debt?

 

I don't think they care who buys it from them.

[TVNewsLover 728]

What I don't get, and forgive me if there is a valid reason for this that I am not knowledgeable about, but why do cable companies put stations on a different dial on the cable line-up than the station's actual channel number. Example - KNTV's channel number is 11; why don't the cable companies put KNTV on cable channel/dial 11 on their line-up (instead of 3)? I could understand if the station's number is high (like 14-83), then it makes sense to put them on a low cable dial position, but if it's 11, why not put them on 11 and avoid confusion?!?

[DirtyHarry 719]

"I don't think they care who buys it from them."

 

At the end of the day, that is correct. But since they've been with NBC since 1954 (WFLA) and since nine stations are NBC affiliates and since they already bought stations from NBC, there are things they could do for each other that might not be reflected in the price.

 

If I we're NBC I would do it just for.the upgraded frequency and the buzz factor of going back to Channel 4.

 

Is this worth $100 million? No.

 

Is this worth $100 million minus what you can sell VHF 11 for? Probably.

[DirtyHarry 719]

"What I don't get, and forgive me if there is a valid reason for this that I am not knowledgeable about, but why do cable companies put stations on a different dial on the cable line-up than the station's actual channel number."

 

In the old days that was because the OTA signal often interfered with that channel because the signal came through the cable. That's why they used to put bulletin boards and public access on those channels.

 

That is still true today except that the UHF signals come through in the 70's and 80's channels today because of the way cable is compressed. Not sure if its an issue with digital but it was with analog.

[DirtyHarry 719]

I might not have explained well enough above. What I meant was that if OTA Channel 4 was broadcast on Cable 4, the cable would also pick up the OTA signal and there might be interference. That's why it would be on a different cable channel in the days of analog.

[caliwxdude 252]

 

What I don't get, and forgive me if there is a valid reason for this that I am not knowledgeable about, but why do cable companies put stations on a different dial on the cable line-up than the station's actual channel number. Example - KNTV's channel number is 11; why don't the cable companies put KNTV on cable channel/dial 11 on their line-up (instead of 3)? I could understand if the station's number is high (like 14-83), then it makes sense to put them on a low cable dial position, but if it's 11, why not put them on 11 and avoid confusion?!?

 

Easy explanation: When KNTV moved into the San Francisco market in 2001, Granite negotiated with AT&T Broadband (now Comcast) to place it between KTVU and KRON in the cable lineup. What better place for a new station to be than right between the two top news stations in the market at the time? Thus NBC "3" was born. When NBC bought the station in December 2001, the NBC "3" train had already left the station and there wasn't enough time/desire to change it before the switch on 1/1/02.

 

I'm not sure when the decision was made to switch to the NBC 11 brand, but I think it was a typical last-minute thing. I recall seeing some demo/proof-of-concept graphics on the old RudeHoney site (anyone remember them?) that showed a new NBC "3" logo in the style of what became the NBC 11 logo, with the "3" set in Trade Gothic Extended. I think there were even a few live trucks that received the updated NBC "3" branding before it was pulled.

 

 

I might not have explained well enough above. What I meant was that if OTA Channel 4 was broadcast on Cable 4, the cable would also pick up the OTA signal and there might be interference. That's why it would be on a different cable channel in the days of analog.

 

This was an exceedingly rare occurrence with old analog NTSC-modulated cable systems, and is definitely not an issue with current all-digital, QAM-modulated systems. Quality coax cable is insulated to where this was not a major issue.

 

 

If I we're NBC I would do it just for.the upgraded frequency and the buzz factor of going back to Channel 4.

 

Meh. In the words of Gary Radnich, "Nobody cares."